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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mobilehaathi, Feb 3, 2012.
I read the whole thing on Rolling Stone today. It made me angry enough to kill. This kind of thing needs to stop, now.
I'm an incredibly non-violent person, but it made me feel the same way. I'm utterly horrified.
If you read the comments section, there are some people who will sicken you even more.
The worst are the ones that say, "Oh, kids are just spineless today." Really? Since when was a kid beaten and the beating ignored by staff in the "good old days"? The teachers or staff made sure those doing the beating got punished.
The deaths of these young people is tragic. The problem is not with the "anti-gay climate" of this town (liberal spin to throw evangelicals under the bus). These evangelicals most likely (I dont know them personally) would absolutely condemn such behavior.
The real problem is the sinful hearts of the students bullying other students. Parents need to setup and raise their kids.
Tragic that anyone should have to go through this.
Obviously school district needs to answer some questions
No- the evangelicals and anti-gay climate are a huge problem here. By not letting the teachers address the issue, how is anyone supposed to learn?
If they don't want their kids to learn about the real world, they should home school or put their kids in private school. Otherwise, they have no right to demand that teachers can't address the issue of homosexuality- not in a public school.
Or did you miss the part that it was an evangelical group who put such a gag order on the teachers? That's not liberal spin, it's fact.
You can't seriously believe that the anti-gay climate did not directly contribute to the suicides; you must be joking. This is not to mention the fact that such a rabid anti-gay climate directly influences and encourages the bullying as well.
Schools cant raise kids - You think the solution is for teachers to be able to talk about homosexuality? You really think that will change what kids say? You honestly believe they will not say hurtful words to peers?
50 years ago if a child got a poor report card his parents would be upset with the child and exhort them to work harder.
Today when a child gets a poor report card his parents run to the school and blame the teacher and tell the teacher their not doing their job.
This article the subject was "homosexuality" it could have been hundreds of different subjects that cause bullying - the problem is children that have not been taught by their parents how to treat people.
No - what directly contributed to the suicides was children not being able to handle bullying + SINFUL children whose parents did not teach them how to interact with humans.
You obviously have not read the article. Go read the whole thing and come back. The evangelicals in the community forced a policy on the teachers saying that they could basically not discuss homosexuality. That is not liberal spin- THAT IS FACT.
The issue is this- teachers should be forbidden to discuss the subject, especially when it relates to how a kid is being abused in their own school. That's ridiculous. What do you think that says to kids going through this? I can tell you, it tells those kids that their community thinks there's something wrong with them, that they're sick, etc. And that is wrong.
Sure- kids will say and do crappy things to each other, but teachers should be able to address it.
Oh horse s***. That's a load of BS. How much are kids supposed to take? What's an acceptable level of bullying for you? Verbal abuse? Beating? And then, how often is it accetable to you?
The problem is that (some/many) evangelicals are teaching their children how to treat certain kinds of people. They are teaching their children to hate, to be mean, and to say bad things. They are teaching their children to be intolerant and they are teaching their children exactly the type of fake religion that Jesus railed against in the Bible. It's sacriligious and they should be ashamed.
Im going to re-read it right now - While you edit your second paragraph to reflect your beliefs.
Which is a shame - Homosexuality is certainly a sin - and bullying is certainly a sin.
You know its possible to be against homosexuality and bullying?
Yes schools can't raise kids, but you have to look at it from their perspective. No matter what you do, go to the teachers, tell your parents, etc about the bullying and yet nothing is getting done about it, you wouldn't feel abandoned or made out to be some kind of weirdo? Maybe if things were done by the school, etc to punish the kids who were bullying the others for being or thought to be gay, they could have handled it since they were being protected by the school.
As noted by a teacher in the article, if someone stated a racial slur, they would get punished. Someone stated an anti-gay slur? It gets ignored. How would that make you feel if you were gay? Someone bullying a person over their race was dealt with, but you being bullied for being gay is ignored?
This is coming from someone who was bullied in middle school for being overweight. How was I capable of handling it? Knowing when it happened, I could go to my teachers and report the issue and they would deal with it by giving the bully in question detention, calling their parents, etc. I didn't have a feeling of abandonment like these gay students had. I knew I was protected if I was bullied. These gay students didn't.
^^^ Reading that you are against homosexuality explains everything. You feel no sympathy for these kids because of their sexual orientation and your own personal beliefs. You may be against bullying as well, but your beliefs are blocking the reason why these kids killed themselves. Maybe if people bullied, beat, etc you for your beliefs and no one would do anything to stop it, maybe then you could understand the situation these kids were in.
Just because people have certain religious beliefs, does not give them the right to harass others who are different from them.
Explain how this works. Explain how you can be against people who simply exist.
You asked me to reread the article - so now I ask you to reread ALL my posts OR read the following - BULLYING IS WRONG - HOMOSEXUALITY IS WRONG - THESE KIDS DO NOT HAVE THE RIGHT TO HARASS OTHER KIDS THAT ARE DIFFERENT THEN THEM.
I hope the capital letters made it easier for you to understand what I was saying.
The blame for some of this can absolutely be put on the schools.
I went to a public high school from 2000-2004. We had openly gay students. No one bothered them because of it. We had openly gay teachers, they didn't risk losing their jobs. We didn't have evangelicals trying to shut down any discussion of homosexuality. It was a welcoming environment for everyone. Straight people were friends with gay people. No one cared what your sexual orientation was. And in the 4 years I was there, I recall there being one suicide - someone who shot himself because his girlfriend dumped him, so that can't even be blamed on gay bullying. And if you went around calling gay students "fags" or "dykes", your punishment would be just as severe if you had called a black student the n-word.
I don't even remember my high school having a gay-straight alliance, because it just wasn't necessary. Us straight students just didn't care if someone was gay and we didn't need to be members of a club to prove it. It was just assumed that we all had an IQ higher than our shoe size and could accept people for who they are.
But when you have a school that's sweeping anti-gay bullying under the rug and LGBT students don't have any support from their peers or teachers, it can certainly lead to a situation where they think suicide is the only answer.
Millions have died for what I believe - I have never been physically hurt for my beliefs.
And your mistaken about my sympathy - I think it is absolutely tragic these these children lost their lives. If it is possible to identify specific children and specific things they said they should be punished.
I am totally against bullying - yet believe homosexuality is a sin.
Please offer proof that homosexuality is "wrong" and why. I do not believe in your religion, nor do you have the right to impose your religion on me. If religion is your reason for saying homosexuality is "wrong" then it holds no water whatsoever for those of us who don't share your religious beliefs.
I hope I don't have to use capital letters made it easier for you to understand what I'm saying.
And yet, I would consider it bullying to go around telling people that their lifestyle, the way they were born is a sin.
It's certainly not nice to tell people who simply exist that they're wrong. We are not broken, we're not wrong, we just are. And we're not going away.
Where does it say that homosexuality is a sin?? Please point it out for the rest of us.
You're sympathetic for them killing themselves, but you're not sympathetic to why they did. They killed themselves because they were bullied for being gay and NO ONE was doing a thing about it. They felt abandoned. Schools intervened on other issues like racism, etc, but ignored their bullying. Parents of the bullies didn't do jack ****. The religious nut jobs pushed hard for the policies these schools implemented.
Again, you're sympathetic to the suicide itself, but not the reason why they did so and dismissing the reason why as it isn't the schools job, etc when it is most definitely the schools job to TEACH kids tolerance and understanding of issues like homosexuality.
I do have a question as yg pointed out.... believing homosexuality is a sin, do you tell gay people that what they are doing is a sin? If no, fine. If you do, then you are a bully.
No matter what your stance on homosexuality or otherwise- this is absolutely horrible.
This is absolutely disgusting.
"Failure to evolve, is failure to us all."
Just terrible. A 21st century developed democracy and this happens? Crazy.
Why can't people exercise independent thought- if some invisible sky man claiming to be a deity appeared before me and said homosexuality is wrong it wouldn't change my opinion. I'd tell him to eff-off.
Disgusting and ignorant.