Open borders. Why?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Herdfan, Nov 18, 2016.

  1. Herdfan macrumors 6502

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    #1
    For those who want open borders, why do you want them? Why should we let everyone who wants to come here in and give them citizenship?
     
  2. chown33 macrumors 604

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  3. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #3
    On the other hand, if it were reciprocal, it would allow Americans to go elsewhere. For instance, if your job was shipped to Mexico, you could move to Mexico to try to continue working in that field.
     
  4. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #4
    The Democrats see them as party voters, since most come from countries with some sort of socialist systems. The unadmitted drawback is that they cost us tax money that we cannot afford to spend. Per the LA Times, the net cost is some $350 billion per year, and rising.
     
  5. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #5
    "Open Borders" as you describe them are a Strawman. I don't think too many people are seriously advocating what you have described.

    However, it is worth noting that we a nation of immigrants. And that to this day the United States continues to benefit greatly from having talented and energetic people move to this country under various immigration and Visa programs. Elon Musk's family immigrated from Russia. So did the founders of Google. Immigrants make up a significant fraction of the entrepreneur-class that founds American businesses.

    Somewhat lower down the economic ladder are those people who come to this country to do jobs that US citizens are unwilling, or unable to do. And frankly immigrants in general add to the social and cultural vibrancy that makes America great. Without immigrants we wouldn't have Chinese food or pizza. We wouldn't have bahn mi and bubble tea. And you couldn't get your roof shingled or your grass cut nearly as cheaply as you can now.

    Demonizing immigrants, be they refugees or people who come here simply to work, is harming this country. And most certainly won't make us richer - or safer.
     
  6. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #6
    Too bad they all closed.
     
  7. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #7
    The difference between today and past years is that the vast majority of immigrants worked to join in as Americans. Sure, ups and downs, but it was the American idea of work hard to get a decent living and a better future.

    Nowadays, too many immigrants have no interest in assimilating and even badmouth the system which is supporting them. A whole different breed of cat from in the past.

    Another factor from back then is that during the economic expansion here, all manner of manual-labor jobs existed. Today, our main problem is that of poorly-educated people in a work environment which needs better-educated people--Which Pres. Clinton noted in the 1990s. (One of the few times when I agreed with him. :))
     
  8. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    Seriously, I used to spend at least an hour everyday at Borders, and many hours during the weekend. My wife and I loved going there, we made many friends.

    My local Borders is now a The Container Shop. In other words, we moved from books to empty boxes. It says a lot about society's priority.
     
  9. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    Cite your source.

    Immigrants to this country assimilate today just as quickly and thoroughly as immigrants in a former age. Milwaukee, where I live, had a situation where the majority of newspapers were still in German up until the early 1930s.

    Illegal or undocumented immigrants, I might note, are generally prevented from receiving benefits (other than education for undocumented children.) So at the very least most of them are working, and spending money in the communities where they live.
     
  10. Gutwrench macrumors 65816

    Gutwrench

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    #10
    Interesting. Cite your source.
     
  11. citizenzen, Nov 18, 2016
    Last edited: Nov 18, 2016

    citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    To be fair, there has been no source cited to back the claim that immigrants of the past assimilated more quickly.

    It all sounds anecdotal to me. People seeing what they want to see.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 18, 2016 ---
    Let's bring something more than mere personal impression to the subject ...
    And ...
    And ...
     
  12. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #12
    I believe that I assimilated quite well
     
  13. rjohnstone macrumors 68040

    rjohnstone

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    #13
    Come to Arizona.
    Most don't assimilate. They fly the Mexican flag and refuse to speak English unless that absolutely have to.
    Granted most are decent people just trying to make a living, but assimilating to American society is not a priority.

    But the reality is, no one really has any issue with legal immigrants.

    It's the illegals that strain the system.
     
  14. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #14
    Yeah I know several immigrants that basically refuse to learn any English. To me this is not acceptable, especially if you immigrate here fairly young.
     
  15. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #15
    Seal the borders and impose 10-year moratorium on immigration.
     
  16. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #16
    I know what you mean. Those German immigrants of the early 20th Century were the worst. Right?
     
  17. steve knight macrumors 68020

    steve knight

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    #17
    Well you like trump so something went wrong
     
  18. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #18
    I am more concerned about early XVIII century Dutch. Jefferson pointed out the problem.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 18, 2016 ---
    Well, I am living proof that the US should've secured the borders until after the elections ;)
     
  19. ActionableMango macrumors 604

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    #19
    I have always heard South Africa, and a quick check on Wikipedia agrees.

    (It's just a minor correction--obviously it still supports your point about immigrants, regardless of whether he is from South Africa or Russia.)
     
  20. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #20
    At least he got the right planet. With Musk, you never know.
     
  21. Good User Name macrumors regular

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    #21
    http://openborders.info

    If you actually want a case made from several perspectives (as well as the inclusion of opposing views for the sake of completeness) you should check out the link above.

    The quick positives are double world GDP, end global poverty, and hopefully put an end to nationalism. It would essentially be a return to one of the best things about the age of classical liberalism.
     
  22. samiwas macrumors 65816

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    #22
    Can you give some sources from people who actually want open borders, with no checks at all, and that we should grant citizenship to anyone who comes in? I mean, I keep reading about it on forums and on right-wing screamo blogs, but I have not seen anyone actually say they want fully-open borders.
     
  23. Good User Name macrumors regular

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    #23
    I want fully open borders but that has little to nothing to do with citizenship.

    Internally the US already has open borders. The ease with which someone can go from Virginia to West Virginia or Florida to Georgia or back again is what open borders advocates would like with international borders.

    Just as a person who freely travels from New York to New Jersey doesn't automatically become a New Jersey citizen, folks who travel from the United States to Canada (for example) don't automatically become Canadian citizens.
     
  24. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #24
    If you have free movement of capital then you need free movement of labor.
     
  25. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #25
    Apparently you weren't following Hillary's campaign.
     

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