Open Letter on the Behalf of "Nice Guys"

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by bobber205, May 14, 2010.

  1. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #1
    (I realize this might not be appropriate for PRSI 100% but I would really like the opinions of the members I know frequent mostly PRSI).

    So a couple years ago I first read this post on "Best of Craigslist". Really hit close to home. Really close. :(

    Of course I am not angry like this guy just generally disappointed. I want to know what you guys think.

    (Original Link)

     
  2. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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  3. bobber205 thread starter macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #3
    Yep. Gets you nowhere fast. :eek:
     
  4. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus

    mkrishnan

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    #4
    LOL nice. People are always saying there are no good single women/men/whatever they want out there, but the reality is usually that we're blind to the really good options and we go after the ones that aren't good for us. I know I still invest in the wrong women.
     
  5. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #5
    In order to make this a proper PRSI thread, here comes the extra-brutality: "Nice Guys" get screwed over because they ask for it, and moreover they usually deserve it. "Nice guy" is a code word for an insecure, passive aggressive, emotionally manipulative leech.

    The "jerks" are misogynists who objectify women and use strategies like "charm" and being "interesting" and maybe stuff they learned via some horrible "fast pick-up" technique, and they suck because it's all bull****.

    The "nice guys" are misogynists who objectify women… as victims, and victims too stupid to see the "obvious" truth that she ought to be giving it up to the "nice guy" instead. He's the guy so insecure about what he has to offer that all he really thinks he has going for him is not being some other guy entirely, and his ability to treat women like he doesn't deserve them, because he really thinks he doesn't (and somehow it isn't supposed to be insulting to her that he expects her to "come around" and condescend to be with him). His strengths are being "agreeable" and "present," and being a spineless, obsequious weasel is his sleazy pick-up technique. And it's still all bull****.

    But it is bull**** that dumps all the pressure over whether things work out or not squarely onto her shoulders, because his fragile little ego can't bear the load. He's whatever she wants him to be, and thus his fluttering little heart is in her hands to crush. If he doesn't get what he wants, which is truthfully exactly the same thing the charming pick-up artist wants, one way or another it's some psychological malfunction on her part.

    What the "nice guy" routine communicates to women is this: "I'm too weak to stand up for myself and make a move, but when you're done being stupid, I'll be hovering over your shoulder waiting for my opportunity to swoop in and get my turn, and by the way, you know damned well I'm here, so you're kind of a bitch for letting me do it." You charmer you.

    And the ones who get all self-righteous and bitter about how badly "women" (because they're all of one mind, you see) treat "nice guys" are really in a sense just showing their true colors: she's just another stupid bitch who won't give it up. It's misogyny just as surely as she gets from the guys you think you're "rescuing" her from.

    And the unseemly truth is, in the rare cases that the "nice guy" lands his princess, he generally fares no better on the "don't be a jerk" scale than the jerks. Solicitous courting, he's got that down, but being a fun and attentive boyfriend? By definition the "nice guy" typically hasn't thought that far ahead. Like the pick-up artist, the problem he is trying to solve does not extend beyond sealing the deal. Sure "the deal" for jerks is just getting some, but "the deal" for nice guys is often a "happily ever after" that's every bit as shallow, except for the part where it's hypothetically forever with a spineless toady, and furthermore, however much trouble the "nice guy" has admitting it, it's just as much about getting some for him too.

    The jerks' bull**** was at least charming and interesting rather than insecure and smothering, and when it turns out it's bull****, it's over, not months of trying to figure out how to escape without utterly destroying someone who is pointedly convinced she is his very last shot at happiness, and who will play that pathos, and subtle reminders of "all he's done for her," to the hilt to keep her reeled in.

    Your big disadvantage as a "nice guy" is only that your bull**** is patently obvious right from the start.

    If you consider yourself a "nice guy" in the sense that you believe always gets crapped on, the first thing to do is to sack up and acknowledge that it's you. The same thing happens to you over and over again with every hapless woman you adhere yourself to, and yet you convince yourself you aren't the problem but every woman in the world is? How delusional is that? Go to a mirror, look yourself in the eye and say "you do not know how to attract girls and you don't think you are worthy to." You already believe it, so just repeat it until you stop making excuses for yourself and acknowledge you are the problem. It's twelve-step for nice guys.

    Face the ugly truth: you might never work out how to talk to women. You might never feel worthy. At what point does that magically become their problem, and how fair is it for you to try to insinuate yourself into any woman's life when your own house is so desperately out of order?

    You don't have to become the pick-up artist. You don't have to be the abusive, drunk womanizer you bitterly assert women are too stupid not to be attracted to. All you have to do is have a spine, to live without external validation, and to live without bull****. Just doing that, even if you never work out how to be all smooth and charming, will give you a huge leg up over the drowning-in-molasses experience you offer now.

    It's ****ing hard. Dauntingly hard. Seemingly (and perhaps actually) insurmountably hard, but that doesn't make it any less the problem you're stuck with. The more you try to wrap your ego in excuses for what you feel incapable of doing, the harder you're going to fail.

    Sincerely,

    A Real Recovering Nice Guy
     
  6. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #7
    Well said. I hope the recovery is progressing "nicely".
     
  8. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #8
    Oh, I mean "recovering" in mostly the same sense as an alcoholic who hasn't had a drop in fifteen years. Still no Cassanova me, but I get by, and the "friend zone" is a memory so distant it doesn't even make enough sense anymore for me to really do justice to how stupid an idea it is.
     
  9. Heilage macrumors 68030

    Heilage

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    #9

    Damn, boy. You're more bitter than me. I had thought that impossible.


    Anyway, both wall of texts have a point. I was a nice guy, who got girls. Don't ask me how. I still don't get how I get them.
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    Gelfin got it right. I get tired of hearing "nice guys" whine.

    Hey "nice guys"- guess what? You don't get what you want because you never ask for it! And really- you kind of get off on not getting what you claim to want. You'd rather complain and whine about it than do something about it.

    So get off your asses and tell that person you're being "nice" to that you want to bang the s*** out of her on a somewhat regular basis. Otherwise, you're using her as much as she's using you.
     
  11. dmr727 macrumors G3

    dmr727

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    #11
    The 'nice guy' is the male version of the girl that sleeps around to get attention from the boys. She's trying to give the guys what she thinks they want, without regard to her personal needs. The 'nice guys' are doing the same thing, but with the gender roles reversed.

    Man the hell up, have a little self respect, and drop the made-for-Lifetime I'll always be here for you BS. That doesn't mean you have to be a dick, but you'll find that a little self confidence will go a looooong way with the ladies.


    I was the 'nice guy' once too, until a good friend of mine (quite literally) punched me in the face over it my freshman year in college.
     
  12. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #12
    Good friend sometimes you need to get punched in the face :D
     
  13. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #13
    So stop it already. You're way too cute for that.
     
  14. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #14
    You grow out of being a nice guy and just start being yourself. Theres no real game to it. If a woman wants to change something about your life tell her to **** off, she might respect you for it (or dump your ass, one of the two).
     
  15. Heilage macrumors 68030

    Heilage

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    #15
    Both literally and figuratively, sometimes it's just what's needed. A good friend will do the right thing, no matter what it is. :)
     
  16. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #16
    Is that "plutonic" as in like-a-goofy-cartoon-dog or as in inhabiting-a-distant-Kuiper-Belt-object?
     
  17. CorvusCamenarum macrumors 65816

    CorvusCamenarum

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    #17
    Women test potential suitors all the time, one goal of which is to see just how much of her crap said potential suitor will put up with. The nice guy is nothing more than someone who fails these test in her eyes.

    Put another way, [straight] women are biologically programmed to prefer men she perceives as higher status than herself. This is why we see a lot of doctors with secretaries, but hardly ever do we see supermodels with janitors. A nice guy is someone a woman keeps around because he's useful to her without asking much in return.
     
  18. iJon macrumors 604

    iJon

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    #18
    It's not about being nice or mean, it's about sparking attraction, something that nice guys are terrible at doing.

    Being a girl's little gal pal and shopping buddy doesn't make her look at you in a sexual light. Buying her flowers and taking her on nice dates doesn't make her sexual attracted to you either.

    Back in high school I used to be the nice guy but fortunately I got some good advice before I went to college so I didn't have to suffer like others do.

    Sometimes people just need to advice when it comes to dating and attracting the opposite sex. There's nothing wrong with that, same as when we need some help learning to use a new Mac, learning to drive a car or maybe getting some help for a hard class in school.

    A lot of it has to be with confidence and how you present yourself to the opposite sex. Go pick up one of the million books from the various pick up artists out there, including Mystery, Style, Janka, Deangelo and so forth.

    Whether your goal is to be great with lots of women or just keep one for the long haul, these guys know women very well and will teach you lots of good skills for interacting with women as well as anyone else in life.
     
  19. bobber205 thread starter macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #19
    In the last 6 months, I've "nutted" up and now I am dealing with the opposite of the situation I expected. xD
     
  20. calderone macrumors 68040

    calderone

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    #20
    But did you sack up!?
     
  21. Rt&Dzine macrumors 6502a

    Rt&Dzine

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    #21
    Also consider . . . the "nice guy" complains that the hot babe overlooks him because he may be a few pounds overweight and is not the tall, handsome, and buff campus stud. Maybe the "nice guy" should check out the "nice girl" and quit playing lapdog to the Perfect 10. (Although the hot babe may overlook your imperfections if you have status or lots of money.)
     
  22. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #22
    Ain't that the truth! Everybody is obsessed over the alphas, when if they just opened their eyes there'd be an endless supply of perfectly good betas. We're hard-wired to aim for alphas. We need to use the brains we supposedly have and refocus on women that are actually attainable.
     

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  23. pooky macrumors 6502

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    #23
    I was thinking more like a large, slowly cooling ball of liquid rock. Meaning a plutonic friend may eventually get it up, but only after a few million years have passed.

    Wow... betas are one thing... I'll happily shoot for a beta... think I'll steer clear of the upsilons though...
     
  24. bobber205 thread starter macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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    #24
    What do you do when the opposite party can't make up their mind? xD
     
  25. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #25
    I wouldn't kick her out of bed for eating crackers. :p
     

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