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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by CorvusCamenarum, Jul 30, 2009.
I never bought into the whole "organic" bit myself, but here you are:
I don't know about you, but I don't buy fair-trade and organic for the "health benefits" but for the combined environmental benefits, and socioeconomic influence. Just sayin'.
I never bought organic food because I thought it was more nutritious. I always bought it because I prefer the taste and like knowing that pesticides and chemical fertilizers are not entering my body.
We mostly choose organic for milk, haven't really done it for other foods.
I try to do the farmers market once a week. I have no problems getting regular foods.
That's actually why we pick the organic dairy products (not all the time, I am cheap)
I never bought into the health craze that is "organic."
Frankly, its because stores such as Whole Foods overprice their food by SO much because they slap "organic" on it.
My gf wanted to go on that 'Master Cleanse' diet with the lemons and syrup and cayenne pepper. The lemons and cayenee pepper from Kroger? Like 15 for 50 lemons and 2 bottles of cayenne pepper.
The Grade B Organic Syrup from "Whole Foods" since Kroger/ Publix didnt have it? 15 dollars. For a bottle of g**d*** syrup! And it was only half of what she needed.
Whole Foods makes me
^ what they said.
Though I don't always buy organic, the price can be a bit prohibitive at times and I justify it on some things and not others.
Yes, me too -- one of the first organic things I bought was milk because treatment of the cows was better.
With respect to price, I think it depends on whether one keeps buying all the things they normally buy and then replaces all the fruits/vegetables/etc with organic versions. Then, yes, it's certainly more expensive. If one shifts to eating more fresh food and shopping locally, I'm less sure. For instance, organic fruit at Whole Foods was very expensive but at Chicago local produce markets or farmer's markets was not particularly any pricier than standard fruit at big grocery stores (and also didn't require driving there). Same with going to the farmer's market here, although sadly up here in the Midwest USA this is only an option for part of the year....
Who actually goes organic for health reasons anyway? I choose to go organic cause we grow our own. That goes for various types of grain, corn, vegetables and some fruits. It's sooooo damn cheap!
So, your idea of environmental benefits, is growing less food on more land? Thanks to modern agriculture, 1 Iowa farmland acre can feed over 80 people a year. In 1900 that same acre could only feed 4 people. As a percentage of the crop we grow, farmers apply far less chemicals than any time in the last 50 years. Thanks to advances in technology, not the abandonment of it. In my opinion, you're abandoning science based growing techniques based on irrational fear mongering spread by food activists like the individuals behind the movie Food, Inc.
You can tell a taste difference between produce, solely based on whether it's organic or non-organic? I'd like to see some scientific evidence to back that theory up. I'd be willing to bet a considerable amount of money that you can't.
Organic cows are 'treated better?' Do you have any scientific evidence to back that up? Have you ever visited a conventional dairy farm? Do you have any idea what you're talking about?
The amount of misinformation out there, spread by food activists and anti-ag groups is absolutely astounding. Hopefully people decide to do a little studying on their own, or actually take the time to visit a farm and see the truth for themselves.
It sounds to me like people are misinterpreting the data, largely because the articles about the data are misleading. The study only looked at the presenceof 11 nutrient categories and did not in any way look at the presence of harmful substances in conventional foods, such as pesticides.
They're not being given milk stimulating hormones and junk being milked so excessively that they get mastitis. (gross, like I want puss in my milk) I'm not sure if I can "pepsi challenge" organic milk from the rest but I damn sure feel better about drinking it. Same goes for my food (free range eggs, chicken, etc) and I think I'm entitled to decide what I want to eat and why.
Yeah, what I more specifically meant was that milk from cows with freer ranges and other humane aspects of farming is typically organic (not vice versa). I actually typically buy soy milk now anyways....
Yes, I've actually visited a commercial dairy farm. And no, I don't really just care to pick a shouting match with you, fivepoint.
miloblithe, I'm not sure anyone is misinterpreting anything. The OP found an analysis failing to support the idea of increased nutritional value or health benefits in organic food, and when everyone here who does try to buy organic explained that this is not the reason we buy these products, then the opponents of organic food just started shouting the same thing more loudly instead of actually listening....
"Organic" cows don't get mastitis? I'm sure their owners would love to hear that! I'm sure it'd be news to them. Mastitis is a natural part of milking in any animal. Human mothers get mastitis, it is because they're consuming far too much 'milk stimulating hormones'?
You're not sure you could 'pepsi challenge' organic milk, because you can't. It's a ridiculous notion.
I'm glad you take your food 'choice/freedom' seriously. I'm glad you have the choice to have free range eggs, etc. Just so you know, the very food activists and anti-ag activists you might get your misleading information from are the ones who are trying to limit your choice by attempting to outlaw GE crops, and outlawing basic technologies which make your food safer, more affordable, and better for the environment.
They think they know what's best for everyone else to eat, and many of them want to control it through congressional legislation, on the back of misleading fear-based campaigns which demonize the American farmer and the incredible food system we've created.
Why the hell would anybody think that organic food is more nutritious than food produced the regular way?!
I eat organic where possible/convenient because of the way it's produced. And yes, I think there's a possibility that there are long term health benefits because of this. But it's also just a better way of producing food.
Farming doesn't have to be about squeezing the most food out of every inch of land. Not everything in this world has to be mass produced.
Actually, yes. The effects of inorganic nitrogen fertilizers that leach nitrates into groundwater is astounding. Its caused eutrophication in lakes all over the US, and dead zones around coastlines are increasing exponentially. And its a whole other ball of wax when it comes to phosphate fertilizers, many of which contain high percentages of fantastic things like polonium, cadmium, and uranium. Talk to any botanist you know, or anyone involved in gross agriculture. Talk to an ecologist, or a conservation biologist, or a soil chemist or an environmental engineer. And yes, I believe in fair trade. Grow less if you need to and pay fair price for it. We waste more than you can imagine, if you want to get into the ethics of poverty and global hunger...
I know what mastitis is and I know that the risk for it goes up when there is an excess of milk sitting there waiting to be emptied. Ergo, I'm going to say that milk stimulating drugs increase the risk for mastitis. I can't be bothered to get you a link but it seems pretty logical to me. Either way I don't like the idea of it. I'd also prefer not to have extra hormones in my milk.
Ever notice that if anything costs a little more, conservatives are always against it? Because that's what it boils down to, isn't it? As long as it's cheap, who cares what's in the food or how it's produced?
I guess it makes it easier to make such statements since your local grocery store has been brim to brim with healthy and affordable food every day since you've been born. Don't worry about the BILLIONS of people worldwide who are starving and in desperate need of proper nourishment.
Organic is great, conventional is great, local is great, industrial is great. All types of agriculture are important and play their role.
That being said, those who actively tear down conventional farming with no understanding of things like the 'green revolution', Norman Borlaug, worldwide hunger, are better off just not saying anything at all.
I disagree. Costing more is great. Prices are determined by supply and demand. I'm glad to pay twice as much for a product that I find to be worth that for a particular reason. I'm glad to pay a large premium for purchasing mac computers. I'm glad to pay a premium for a car that will last longer, get better mileage, is more comfortable, etc.
If someone values consuming products that haven't been genetically modified (GMO or GE crops) than that additional cost is their choice to make. Regardless of whether or not there is any viable science behind their views, the market should be allowed to adapt and provide those consumers with the products they want.
Our current food system is an excellent example of this. Our grocery stores provide never-before-seen diversity of products, including fresh and organic produce, etc. at amazing prices. Americans are lucky enough to spend on average less than 10% of their income on food. In many nations, this is well over 30 or 40%.
Yes I have been to multiple dairy farms and my uncle owns an organic dairy farm. Cows in large commericial dairy farm are fed massive ammounts of antibiotics and hormones to maximize milk output and to allow them to survive their unnatural diets. They are also kept in incredibly confined conditions.
The discrepency between organic free range beef and not organic beef is evven more pronounced. In fact the primary reason that red meat is so bad for us is because of the way it is made. Not organic cows are fed primarily on corn which they are not meant to eat, so they are fed litteraly pounds of antibiotics to keep them "heathy". The constant use of antibiotics is also leading to the evolution of some cool superbugs.
edit: For the record I doubt you can taste the difference between organic or not organic milk but the difference is very real.
Holy hell, what got into your cheerios this morning? I know you're not trying to guilt trip organic food buyers into thinking we're somehow responsible for worldwide starvation.
Not at all, and if you'd read my posts... you'd know that.
In the midst of a global recession, organic food is sparking and sustaining growth ranging from small business owners (independent farmers) in India to large store chain companies in the US that use it as a recession buster. The people selling their food at the farmer's market are the epitome of the American small business dream. I am quiet curious why conservativism would be so dead set against that.
But genetic modification isn't the only reason people eat organic foods, as has been explained already. I grew up between two dairy farms. There was no mass production, hormone injections etc. involved back then. We got our meat, milk and eggs from them. Many times we killed the animals ourselves. I can tell you that food was far better that anything you find in a regular grocery store now. It tasted better, looked better and I knew exactly how it was produced.
Because you can make it cheaper!
Haha, that is hilarious. Even though I just got done saying that 'organic is great' and 'local is great', even though I made it clear that my main concern are those activists who seek to reduce choice and eliminate science from the equation... you instead decide to create a complete straw-man argument and tell me that I (or conservatives) don't support entrepreneurism or the American Dream!?!? Wow.