Our Environment is Suffering

Huntn

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Environmentalists have been saying this for decades. First here was CO2 and other greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. There has been has been a steady increase in global temps, the polar ice is melting, storms are getting bigger and badder. Sea levels are rising, downtown Miami is now expected to be under water in 10 years. The moral? Who needs regulations when there is money to be made? :oops:

Related to Hurricane Florence, Rachel Maddox is talking about this tonight on her show:
North Carolina Faces Pig Feces Nightmare.
https://nypost.com/2018/09/19/north-carolina-hog-lagoons-are-exploding-poo-after-hurricane-florence/

83FE8D32-F119-4488-ABAF-AA1AF10EAF97.jpeg

The rain from Hurricane Florence may be over, but North Carolina residents are facing a nightmare — exploding hog poo lagoons.

North Carolina is home to roughly 4,000 of these open-air ponds where farmers store pig excrement and allow the waste to decompose before using it as a fertilizer spray for crops.

As of Tuesday, at least two hog waste lagoons in the state — one in Duplin County and one in Sampson County — have been breached, meaning a structural failure caused the lagoon’s walls to collapse or break, allowing poo and urine to escape.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors 604
Oct 27, 2009
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I remember watching a doc about them spraying the feces in the air, and neighboring homes and land would be covered in it. Of course the people affected were poor, so they had no recourse.
 

BoxerGT2.5

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I don't know about Miami being under water in 10yrs, California was suppose to have cracked off and floated away (not saying it's a bad thing) decades ago. Guess what, as long as their are natural disasters there are going to be issues that pop up that no one gave much though to. I don't think when Florence was heading towards the Carolina's too many people put pig **** high up on the list of secondary catastrophes. You see the video's of looting?
 
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s2mikey

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Sep 23, 2013
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I don't know about Miami being under water in 10yrs, California was suppose to have cracked off and floated away (not saying it's a bad thing) decades ago. Guess what, as long as their are natural disasters there are going to be issues that pop up that no one gave much though to. I don't think when Florence was heading towards the Carolina's too many people put pig **** high up on the list of secondary catastrophes. You see the video's of looting?
Well said - according to the environmental doom & gloomers we should be all dead by now like 10 times over. Blah blah blah. But, here we are..... apparently playing with house money at this stage. Bunch of hype and mostly BS. Aint buying into it. The entire movement is just another atempt and transferring wealth and power to certain people. Nope. im not interested. Thanks anyways.

BTW - LOVE the California comment too. Its like.... BYE! :)
 
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kobalap

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Nov 30, 2009
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Environmentalists have been saying this for decades. First here was CO2 and other greenhouse gases in the atmosphere. There has been has been a steady increase in global temps, the polar ice is melting, storms are getting bigger and badder. Sea levels are rising, downtown Miami is now expected to be under water in 10 years. The moral? Who needs regulations when there is money to be made? :oops:

Related to Hurricane Florence, Rachel Maddox is talking about this tonight on her show:
North Carolina Faces Pig Feces Nightmare.
https://nypost.com/2018/09/19/north-carolina-hog-lagoons-are-exploding-poo-after-hurricane-florence/


The rain from Hurricane Florence may be over, but North Carolina residents are facing a nightmare — exploding hog poo lagoons.

North Carolina is home to roughly 4,000 of these open-air ponds where farmers store pig excrement and allow the waste to decompose before using it as a fertilizer spray for crops.

As of Tuesday, at least two hog waste lagoons in the state — one in Duplin County and one in Sampson County — have been breached, meaning a structural failure caused the lagoon’s walls to collapse or break, allowing poo and urine to escape.
I'm not entirely sure what environmentalists proposed to do. I mean, I don't think putting a cork in a pig's butt would have been a practical solution.
 

Huntn

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I don't know about Miami being under water in 10yrs, California was suppose to have cracked off and floated away (not saying it's a bad thing) decades ago. Guess what, as long as their are natural disasters there are going to be issues that pop up that no one gave much though to. I don't think when Florence was heading towards the Carolina's too many people put pig **** high up on the list of secondary catastrophes. You see the video's of looting?
I’ll counter that California falling off as an event is without substantiated basis. Rising sea levels is documented.
[doublepost=1537534169][/doublepost]
I'm not entirely sure what environmentalists proposed to do. I mean, I don't think putting a cork in a pig's butt would have been a practical solution.
Look at farms and cows, which rightfully should be classified as heavy industry. It’s cumulative, and when events combine you get these large toxic spills. And I understand if we regulate pork production, it will make pork more expensive, ie less profits, then maybe we should consider alternatives, instead of allowing profits (along with the associated harm) to rule us.

Methane emissions from cattle are 11% higher than estimated
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/29/methane-emissions-cattle-11-percent-higher-than-estimated
 
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R.Perez

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Feb 16, 2010
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Why Did Miami Beach's Multimillion-Dollar Anti-Flood Pumps Fail?

Miami Beach has the second most properties threatened by rising seas in the world, so the city recently sank $500 million into a Sisyphean project to install up to 80 anti-flood pumps across the city. Though the system has helped suck away sunny-day tidal flooding, independent engineers have warned that the pumps likely won't save the city during a major flood event: Last year, an engineer told New Times the pumps would probably fail during a hurricane because there are no backup generators if the city loses power.

Yesterday Miami Beach saw firsthand how the new anti-flood system works during a major storm. The tail end of Tropical Depression Emily (not even a tropical storm at this point) grazed Miami, and the amount of rain exceeded the pumps' maximum capacity. Certain portions of the city ended up drowning under multiple feet of water. And according to city spokesperson Melissa Berthier, a brief power outage knocked two pump stations out in Sunset Harbour for 45 minutes. Multiple restaurants in the area, including Pubbelly and Sushi Garage, told New Times they were inundated.


[doublepost=1537535366][/doublepost]We are literally seeing the consequences of climate change and sea level rise right in front of our faces and partisans still want to pretend it isn't real.
 

T'hain Esh Kelch

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Aug 5, 2001
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We are literally seeing the consequences of climate change and sea level rise right in front of our faces and partisans still want to pretend it isn't real.
Indeed. Just tidal changes are flooding some low land parts of Miami now, which didn't happen 10 years ago, and they keep pretending its normal.
 
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Sydde

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… Sea levels are rising, downtown Miami is now expected to be under water in 10 years. …
In terms of the weighted effects of AGW, downtown Miami being inundated amounts to the equivalent of a rounding error, dwarfed in significance by the shrinking snowpack and drought in Colorado. The Colorado Rocky Mountains feed water to a major swath of western US agriculture: if that water supply dries up, the whole US is going to be in some serious trouble.
 

RootBeerMan

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Jan 3, 2016
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I’ll counter that California falling off as an event is without substantiated basis. Rising sea levels is documented.
[doublepost=1537534169][/doublepost]
Look at farms and cows, which rightfully should be classified as heavy industry. It’s cumulative, and when events combine you get these large toxic spills. And I understand if we regulate pork production, it will make pork more expensive, ie less profits, then maybe we should consider alternatives, instead of allowing profits (along with the associated harm) to rule us.

Methane emissions from cattle are 11% higher than estimated
https://www.theguardian.com/environment/2017/sep/29/methane-emissions-cattle-11-percent-higher-than-estimated
It's not about profits, (although that plays a part for the producers). It is about giving the consumers what they want. Affordable protein. There's nothing heavy about cattle farming. The majority of it takes place on small family farms, not industrial feed lots. The cows only go to feed lots for a few weeks, before slaughter. And that doesn't even apply to all cattle. Much of the cattle never even see a feed lot. Pigs..well, that is heavier than cattle, and their waste is an issue that many states need to address (but are failing to). It is something the feds need to stay out of, though. They'll just screw up, as usual. If pork becomes more expensive, fewer people will be able to afford it, at all levels of the economy. That's not a good thing.
 

Mousse

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Apr 7, 2008
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Indeed. Just tidal changes are flooding some low land parts of Miami now, which didn't happen 10 years ago, and they keep pretending its normal.
Shifting baseline syndrome, bro. What used to be dangerously high water levels is normal today.

Shifting baselines is most obvious in the music industry. [CURMUDEON]I remember a time when music was good, not the cacophony of noise that passes for music nowadays. Music was just better when they let ugly people make it (BB King, Mick Jagger, Lyle Lovett, Iggy Pop and so on).[/CURMUDEON]
 

vrDrew

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Flooding in coastal areas along the eastern seaboard of the United States is a serious problem. One that's going to get worse, very likely catastrophically, if we don't take action.

The rise in global sea levels caused by climate change is part of the problem. But its much more complicated than that. People hear that sea levels are rising by 0.10" or so per year, and think "no big deal." Because, obviously, most of Miami Beach or Charleston is more than a couple of inches above sea level. But that confuses global sea level with local sea level. And that's where things get worse. Because a large part of the eastern seaboard of the United States is sinking. This subsidence is caused by factors such as geological tectonic movement, but also by ground-water pumping. Local sea level is also affected by changes in ocean currents. Local sea levels along parts of the east coast have increased by more than 3 inches in the years between 2002 and 2014.



Hopefully, as the Southeast recovers from Hurricane Florence, voters and legislators in those states will get out of the climate change denial mode, and start looking seriously at the catastrophe looming on the horizon. Because Florence won't be the last Hurricane to come calling.
 

RootBeerMan

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On the rising sea levels issue, we have this little piece that really sums up that chart that @vrDrew posted. It lists Isle of Wight County. That's a place I used to live when I was a kid and my dad was still in the Navy. Flooding was not unknown there 50 years ago and things have gotten worse. The US Navy is trying to stay ahead of it, (despite the fools in Congress, the public and the White House). That is a critically important region for the Navy, as their shipyards and bases are all over the place. The Navy is paying attention. Too bad the rest of the government isn't.

https://news.nationalgeographic.com/2017/02/pentagon-fights-climate-change-sea-level-rise-defense-department-military/
 
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Huntn

macrumors demi-god
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It's not about profits, (although that plays a part for the producers). It is about giving the consumers what they want. Affordable protein. There's nothing heavy about cattle farming. The majority of it takes place on small family farms, not industrial feed lots. The cows only go to feed lots for a few weeks, before slaughter. And that doesn't even apply to all cattle. Much of the cattle never even see a feed lot. Pigs..well, that is heavier than cattle, and their waste is an issue that many states need to address (but are failing to). It is something the feds need to stay out of, though. They'll just screw up, as usual. If pork becomes more expensive, fewer people will be able to afford it, at all levels of the economy. That's not a good thing.
Read about a cattle farm. I don’t have a handy link but I have read the methane, the waste and the chemical runoff often into rivers is equivalent to heavy industry.
 

RootBeerMan

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Read about a cattle farm. I don’t have a handy link but I have read the methane, the waste and the chemical runoff often into rivers is equivalent to heavy industry.
I have farms and cattle farms all around me. They are nothing like an industrial setup. The cows graze on lots of open land and have large areas to roam in. What you may be thinking of is the cattle feed lots that many companies run. These are places where cattle go after the farmers sell them, to be fattened up on corn before slaughter. That is kind of industrial, but the cattle do not emit any more methane than they did at their original farm. All mammals, big and small emit methane. It's part of our biology. There's also seldom any runoff into waterways, as that is regulated by the EPA and they are quite strict about that, (not just for the feedlots but for farming, in general). What many people tend to overlook, (in their rush to impose their veganism on us), is that cattle manure, which is the primary waste of cattle, is biodegradable and, from the feedlots, is usually sold to fertiliser companies to be composted and sold to everyday people for use in gardening. Pig manure though, is a totally different story.
 

Huntn

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The Misty Mountains
I have farms and cattle farms all around me. They are nothing like an industrial setup. The cows graze on lots of open land and have large areas to roam in. What you may be thinking of is the cattle feed lots that many companies run. These are places where cattle go after the farmers sell them, to be fattened up on corn before slaughter. That is kind of industrial, but the cattle do not emit any more methane than they did at their original farm. All mammals, big and small emit methane. It's part of our biology. There's also seldom any runoff into waterways, as that is regulated by the EPA and they are quite strict about that, (not just for the feedlots but for farming, in general). What many people tend to overlook, (in their rush to impose their veganism on us), is that cattle manure, which is the primary waste of cattle, is biodegradable and, from the feedlots, is usually sold to fertiliser companies to be composted and sold to everyday people for use in gardening. Pig manure though, is a totally different story.
Here: http://www.sustainabletable.org/265/environment

There is more besides this:
Factory farms concentrate an unnatural number of animals in one place, which creates an unmanageable amount of waste. For example, a single hog excretes up to 17.5 pounds of manure and urine each day. Put 1,000 hogs together, and that’s six million pounds of waste each year. On a factory farm containing 35,000 hogs, over four million pounds of waste are produced each week, and over 200 million pounds each year. FWhereas on a sustainable farm animal waste can be a tool, in factory-farm amounts it becomes a major pollutant.

The creation and disposal of such enormous quantities of waste has a devastating effect on the air, water and soil surrounding factory farms. Unlike human waste, livestock manure is not processed for sanitation. On factory farms it is commonly mixed with water and held in pits (called “lagoons”), and then spread or sprayed on cropland. But the system often suffers from an excess of manure: the lagoons can leak or spill, for instance, or the manure is over-applied to fields, which can cause it to run off into surface waters.
 

RootBeerMan

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Jan 3, 2016
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Here: http://www.sustainabletable.org/265/environment

There is more besides this:
Factory farms concentrate an unnatural number of animals in one place, which creates an unmanageable amount of waste. For example, a single hog excretes up to 17.5 pounds of manure and urine each day. Put 1,000 hogs together, and that’s six million pounds of waste each year. On a factory farm containing 35,000 hogs, over four million pounds of waste are produced each week, and over 200 million pounds each year. FWhereas on a sustainable farm animal waste can be a tool, in factory-farm amounts it becomes a major pollutant.

The creation and disposal of such enormous quantities of waste has a devastating effect on the air, water and soil surrounding factory farms. Unlike human waste, livestock manure is not processed for sanitation. On factory farms it is commonly mixed with water and held in pits (called “lagoons”), and then spread or sprayed on cropland. But the system often suffers from an excess of manure: the lagoons can leak or spill, for instance, or the manure is over-applied to fields, which can cause it to run off into surface waters.
That's hog production, which is vastly different than cattle and is akin to an industrial setting. I've said for years that these hog farms need to manage their waste better, (because hog waste is a lot different than cattle) but their industry is not moving forward on it at a fast pace. I know that locally many of these farms have faced lawsuits and fines because of their waste management failures. Hopefully, one of these days it'll be resolved. Oh, the site you posted? They're vegetarians, pursuing a vegetarian, anti-meat agenda. Take their words with a grain of salt.