Over 60 flip-flops from John McCain, Partisan Attack or Evidence of Media Bias?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Cleverboy, Jul 15, 2008.

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Is John McCain a flip-flopper?

  1. Yeah. That about covers it.

    10 vote(s)
    55.6%
  2. No. This isn't a fair charge.

    1 vote(s)
    5.6%
  3. Barack Obama flips way more!

    0 vote(s)
    0.0%
  4. All politicians do this all the time. Nothing new.

    7 vote(s)
    38.9%
  1. Cleverboy macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #1
    http://www.alternet.org/election08/90956/?page=entire
    I know he explained this one during a talk at Google, by saying that Falwell came to him and they mended fences, while others hadn't. Don't know if that strikes me as a "flip-flop" so much as its someone who can move on from disagreements (though cynically, it can obviously been seen as far more political and much less principled).

    ~ CB
     
  2. stillwater macrumors regular

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    #2
    I love number 45.

    45. On immigration policy in general, McCain announced in February 2008 that he would vote against his own bill.

    Honestly, I can't tell where McSame stands on anything any more.
     
  3. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #3
    It is called pandering, they all do it.

    What decides a flip from a change in view, people are allowed to change the way they think.
     
  4. és: macrumors 6502a

    és:

    #4
    Oh come on, this is a bit different to just changing the way he thinks.
     
  5. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #5
    I am talking in general terms. I hear flip flop thrown around a lot. Any change in views is now known as a flip flop.
     
  6. maestro55 macrumors 68030

    maestro55

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    #6
    I believe people are allowed to change they way they think. Though politicians seem to change the way think in order to get votes, and then after they get the votes they go back to their old way of thinking or they flip-flop some more. We need clear thinkers running for president, people who may change their views based on the world climate but people who won't change their views only to score votes.
     
  7. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #7
    The difference is a flip-flop is an immediate (or nearly immediate) change in opinion due not to new information or a gradual understanding (or fence-mending, etc.), but in order to make one more agreeable.

    If you are a sports fan, learning to love a new team after years of living in a new city is not flip-flopping, but changing team jerseys every year to show your fandom for the current No. 1 team that's flip-flopping.

    Fair weather fans are the epitome of flip-floppers.

    It's also worth noting that some of these example aren't really flip-flopping, but rather McCain talking out of both sides of his mouth depending on the audience.

    None of these are admirable qualities in someone running for the highest office.
     
  8. Iscariot macrumors 68030

    Iscariot

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    #8
    While I understand the distinctions between flip-flopping, fence-sitting and mind-changing, it seems to me that the negative focus on all three as "flip flopping" has made for politicians who have come to perceive changing one's mind as political weakness. (I do not doubt that McCain has flip-flopped for political gain, fwiw).
     
  9. Cleverboy thread starter macrumors 65816

    Cleverboy

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    #9
    I agree. That bugged me. Before it didn't. But now it bugs me again. Being stubborn or single-minded (as some have referred to in recent weeks) was definitely a mark of power for Bush that he rarely seemed to change his mind on anything. This criticism seems almost impossible to maintain as a knock on the current administration because its such a popular leadership trait. Doing otherwise... even hinting at re-evaluting one's position (by using words like "refine" for instance), flirts with disaster.

    ~ CB
     
  10. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #10
    Well it's not just that he's pandering, they all do pander (most of them anyway) but that's he's done so so flippantly. Over and over again. And not just a clarification, or coming to his senses (like with the MLK holiday, which took some time but he finally came around) but with things like torture, which he was so opposed to, then suddenly wasn't. Completely and totally changing his opinions on the subject and against everything he used to stand for. It was pretty bad when Obama voted on FISA, and his reasoning wasn't great either (and yet he still gets hit with being weak on terrorism) but he wasn't that clear on the subject to begin with (despite what you've heard) and it's not like he used to constantly talk about it. But he's still called a flip flopper, and worse, even when he isn't, it's just that people didn't realize he was as right leaning on some things as he is, like with faith based initiatives, or he's unclear on something, like with gun control. Yet McCain, who is actually flip flopping, worse than Kerry, is barely even talked about.

    I'm not saying Obama isn't leaning more to what he calls the center that's actually the right. Just that he kinda already was there. And just saying that neither side really realized that. Meanwhile McCain has also been leaning further and further to the right, often on the not so good things, like the above where he voted against his own bill. But he's still called a maverick. There's your media bias. Liberal media my butt.

    Being stubborn in the face of changing evidence isn't great either, but that's not what's happening.
     

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