Overdoses deaths

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by yaxomoxay, Aug 6, 2019.

  1. yaxomoxay macrumors 68040


    Mar 3, 2010
    In the other posts about the shootings I talked about OD's deaths. Taking away the discussion on the (politically charged) shootings, I'd like to hear your opinion.

    Why, in your opinion we went from 5K OD deaths in the 1970's, to ~15K deaths in the 1990's and about 60K+ deaths in 2010-2018? What has changed?

  2. Crowbot macrumors 6502


    May 29, 2018
    Doctors, for whatever reasons, have been overprescribing opioids for years. The drug companies played down the potential of addiction in order to push sales. So we have a boom in addiction. It's a difficult balance between treating people who are in real pain and staving off addiction. The medical profession seems to be serious about alternatives to opioids but it's not easy. Often, the substitutes are potentially addictive. Add to that the underground market and, here we are.
  3. benshive macrumors regular

    Feb 26, 2017
    United States
    I think a combination of power mental health treatment (why do you think so many are turning to these drugs in the first place?), the pharmaceutical industry, and doctors overprescribing are at least partially to blame.
  4. jkcerda macrumors 6502a


    Jun 10, 2013
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    we have kids on ****ing aderral...................... of course they will grow up depending on drugs and when the prescription high is not enough they will search for the next best thing :(
  5. vertical smile macrumors 68040

    vertical smile

    Sep 23, 2014
    I think the opioid and heroin epidemic has had the biggest influence. But, the root cause, that might be harder to pin point.

    The advancement of technology, making it easier to buy/sell to a wider population.
    Maybe the legalization/decriminalization of gateway drugs probably played a big part.
    Drug companies misleading about how addictive painkillers are.
    Doctors pushing addictive prescription drugs.
    The acceptance of addicts in society, and the stigma being removed from addiction.
    Widespread drug use among celebrities, sports stars, and even politicians is becoming more prevalent than ever.
    New stresses involving social media, in which people are starting to self-medicate.

    I am sure I am missing a bunch of other possible causes.
  6. NT1440 macrumors G5


    May 18, 2008
    WV alone has been flooded with hundreds of times the amount of pills vs. prescriptions.

    It’s a drug racket, period, and the investigations into the Sackler family is going to show that the goal was fraud to flood the country with pills (for profit) the entire time.
  7. BeeGood macrumors 68000


    Sep 15, 2013
    Lot 23E. Somewhere in Georgia.
    I don’t know the precise history and timelines, but isn’t it the case that hard drugs didn’t really become widely available (and relatively cheap) until the 60s?

    I think cocaine and heroine started becoming more widely used in the 60s, then you had the introduction of crack cocaine in the 80s. Now we have doctor-prescribed opioids.
  8. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000


    Jun 4, 2008
    Well first the AMA decided that pain was the 5th vital sign so opioid pain medication was prescribed out the ying yang, then we all figured out that people got hooked on the stuff and were still in pain, so an effort to curb it's dispensing transpired with no detox or support. When you cut people off what they've become addicted to with no chemical dependency support this forced people to find their opioid fix on the street. So people are self medicating and spiraling out of control. If you really want to read more about it read the book Dream Land by Sam Quinones.
  9. samcraig macrumors P6

    Jun 22, 2009
    Drug companies and doctors pushing out prescrips as if they are PEZ
  10. vrDrew macrumors 65816

    Jan 31, 2010
    Midlife, Midwest
    Something like a thirty percent of middle-aged Americans say they suffer from chronic physical pain. But rather than treat the underlying causes of that pain - which would be expensive - insurance companies' guidelines recommend prescription of opioid pain relievers, which are much cheaper.

    Its good business all round. Good for the drug makers. Easier and cheaper for overworked doctors. And profitable for the insurance companies.

    People who don't have health insurance, or can't pay the deductibles and co-pays on the insurance they do have - find it fairly easy to find ways of getting hold of pain medication even if they lack a prescription. Relatives, friends, or simply buying them on the street or dealers.

    Once people start taking opioid pain medication without close medical supervision it's easy for them to become addicted. And it's easy for them to overdose.

    America's healthcare system is failing its people.
  11. NT1440 macrumors G5


    May 18, 2008
    The Sakler family explicitly sold the premise to doctors that their opioids weren’t addictive, based on a study they commissioned through a third party. Basically this one family is responsible for re-selling a drug that was exclusively for terminal cancer pain management, foisting the lie that it wasn’t addictive on a whole new generation of doctors based on the false study they created and funded.

    It was fraud for profit from day one, and they knew it. They’re responsible for literally millions of shattered lives.
  12. LordVic macrumors 603

    Sep 7, 2011
    Opiates are incredibly addictive. More so than I think most people understand.

    They've also been heavily peddled and pushed as the overall pain management solution without further diving down into the reasons why. In addition, Opiates have been getting more distilled and stronger.

    we are also getting Fentynol dumped into North American markets via smuggling from China.
  13. VulchR macrumors 68020


    Jun 8, 2009
    Drug companies cajoled and bribed doctors into treating opiates as non-addictive, which was always nonsense. In short, the cause is fraud. Capitalist health care at its worst - no better than selling heroin to vulnerable people.

    Heads should roll from the drug companies to the FDA. The medical professions, from physicians to pharmacists should take a good hard look at themselves as well. Finally, people should educate themselves. I was prescribed slow-release opiates for chronic pain in the UK during the period that these drugs were being foisted on patients in the US. I always knew there was a risk and took myself off them (under medical supervision) ASAP. The thing is, opiates aren't even particularly effective analgesics for some kinds of pain.
  14. TheFluffyDuck macrumors 6502

    Jul 26, 2012
    If this includes what I think it does then the abuse of prescription medication such as opioids. It is also the war on drugs. That drives two-tier problems of hike in purity and counterfeit product

    War-on-drugs drives up the purity of many substances to get more material in, people who take cuts from that can die. Because we teach abstinence only approach to the dosage of illegal drugs. Imagine how many kids lives could have been saved at concerts with as little knowledge as "split the pill in half". But the real issue isn't purity in many cases but imposter compounds. Bad actors substitute these drugs with potentially lethal substitutes and its the imposter substance that kills people. There's no consumer affairs court where you can sue somebody for giving you dodgy products. Which is the problem with the prohibition of drugs.

    Also, there are now more types of drugs on the streets than ever before, these are called "research chemicals" and their safety profile is unknown. It might surprise some people but many of the prohibited drugs have a great safety profile, that is safer than alcohol. Some substances like LSD, Mushrooms, MDMA, are showing great promise in treating many kinds of mental afflictions such as depression, PTSD, and treating addiction. It shouldnt be a suprise but it is, that recreational drugs that make you feel happy are treating depression, but it is.

    But these drugs are illegal, and this has forced illicit drug labs to come up with legal substitutes, many of these imposters are unknown in their safety profile or downright lethal. These then get added onto the list of banned substances forcing drug manufacturers to come up with even more creative and potentially deadly substances. There are more drugs now on the prohibited list than there were when the war-on-drugs started.

    Take LSD for example, was used for decades in science and medicine, had its own scientific journals, and is the third safest drug to take next to Mushrooms and weed. Nobody has ever died from LSD, the lethal dose has never been achieved. But now there is a potentially lethal alternative being sold as LSD called NBOME 25i, which could kill you in as little as two tabs, a common LSD dose. But what gets the blame LSD on this imposter compound? LSD of course. Which is why all drug users should buy testing kits and test their gear.


    End the war on drugs, move the conversation around drug use from "criminality" to a "treatment" focus.
    Stop prosecuting people for possession, use, or even production for personal use (i.e.,"cannabis plant at home")
    End drug abstinence education by educating around dosage and safe use, even if illegal.
    Anonymous drug testing at concerts.

    That would be a start. It would also cut down on other halo effects in society, such as gang violence, theft, cost of incarceration, limited job aspects after prison etc.

    As for the opiate problem, I don't know as that's prescription medication by professionals. Except when people self medicate.
  15. Rogifan macrumors Core


    Nov 14, 2011
    I feel for those who have chronic pain. A few years back I slipped on the ice and suffered a concussion. I started out with nausea and a minor headache. As soon as the nausea went away I started doing work again because I thought I was OK. It was the worst thing in the world to do. It resulted in headaches unlike I’ve ever had before and so bad I couldn’t even keep water down. I can’t handle anything more than ibuprofen so that’s all I was taking (and it was doing nothing). I was finally put on an IV and given anti nausea meds. The instructions from the doctor were to be in a dark room with no stimulus for one week. That finally did the trick. I’ll never forget the pain though. Never experienced anything like it in my life. I can only imagine what it must be like for people with back or nerve problems. I’m sure these drugs are the only thing giving them some quality of life. I’m praying for the day there’s a medical breakthrough and this kind of pain can be treated without the need for highly addictive drugs.
  16. Solver macrumors 6502a

    Jan 6, 2004
    What changed?
    Less respect for personal responsibility, from all sides.
    But what caused that?
  17. LordVic macrumors 603

    Sep 7, 2011
    There are alternatives it's just understanding what's pushing the current drug trends and traffic.

    A lot of the more safe and easonable alternatives are also not vastly profitable as they're simple, generic or unpatentable drugs. This keeps the pharmaceutical companies from really caring about researching them or pushing sales of those over the addicted opiates.

    none of this is accidental

    As someone who lives with 24/7 pain due to head/neck injuries (Numerous concussions and head injuries). I have avoided the use of most opiates (only take 8mg of codeine on my worst days).

    I have found that natural means of pain relief help dull enough to be somewhat functional. And for the rest of the days, I found Cannabis based solutions to help far more than the codeine based solutions... Cannabis doesn't cause me to be constipated :p
  18. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000


    Jun 4, 2008
    Not quite, people with legitimate pain were seeking medical advice/treatment and were given something that caused them to become addicted to the drugs. Over half the prescriptions for opioid pain meds were written by peoples PCP's, which IMHO have no business prescribing such medication.
    --- Post Merged, Aug 6, 2019 ---
    Thanks for that image.
  19. LordVic macrumors 603

    Sep 7, 2011
    a less often talked about side affects of Opiates is constipation. Extreme constipation under heavy dosage, which ends up driving users of these opiates to require a wider litany of drugs to help account for the side affects of those.

    Those other drugs all with their own side affects, which then require additional pills..

    ever wonder why there are some people who take 10-20 pills a day? often, it's just pills to deal with the side affects of other pills. and it all piles on.

    Istead of docs pulling off meds and dealing with that method of clearing up issues, they keep dumping more and more drugs on top.

    that's how we wind up with situations like we have today with the opiates, especially Fentanyl. it's just the wrong people pushing medications they're being pushed to sell.

    Thankfully doctors getting kick backs from pharmacies for pushing their drugs is now illegal. (or is now up here)
  20. yaxomoxay, Aug 6, 2019
    Last edited: Aug 6, 2019

    yaxomoxay thread starter macrumors 68040


    Mar 3, 2010
  21. Solver macrumors 6502a

    Jan 6, 2004
    I got that but, do you think if all sides were a lot more personally responsible, this drug overdose problem would have been greatly reduced?
  22. LordVic macrumors 603

    Sep 7, 2011
    Not everyone is an expert at literally everything. A patient going to a professional (A doctor in this case) should be reasonabl assured that the Doctor is going to be offering options that are in the best interest of the patient.

    I believe the idea that if a patient is prescribed a certain medication from their doctor that the patient has responsibility of knowing the full breadth of health affects of that medication.

    That's the entirety of the point of having doctors in the first place. To be able to take your personal life situation and apply their medical expertise at picking the appropriate drugs as required.

    this "personal responsibility" narrative you want to throw around in every thread is nothing more than a euphamism to cover your social darwinism.

    Simple fact, if Doctors are not doing their duty by ensuring the health and safety of their patients, and are chosing to push drugs on behalf of the pharmaceuticals over the proper safe recommendations to their patients, than it's the Doctors who hold the responsibility of blame and shouldn't be doctors.

    Blaming the patient for following their doctors advice is just "victim blaming" and completely ignores where the burden of responsibility should lie.
  23. The-Real-Deal82 macrumors 604


    Jan 17, 2013
    Wales, United Kingdom
    A much larger population compared to the 70’s and I was amazed when I was in America to see prescription drugs advertised on television. Americans by culture seem a lot more paranoid than Europeans and the influx of pushing drugs through advertising and a political system that fails to focus on poverty stricken areas is a recipe for suicide IMO.
  24. weckart macrumors 601

    Nov 7, 2004
    Let's try a techie response.

    The internet has opened access to all sort of drugs. No more standing on dodgy street corners looking for a pedlar. All sorts of new synthetic drugs that can be made at home without having to grow flora of any sort. Bitcoin has also added another dimension, making it easier to launder drug funds. It's the democratisation of crime over the past few decades.
  25. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000


    Jun 4, 2008
    People go to the doctor to get help, valuing there expertise. They're placing their faith in the doctor that they have their best interest in hand. I'm not sure how you can put "personal responsibility" on a patient coming to a doctor in pain when they end up addicted to the medication they were given. The addictive properties were well hidden from patients in regards to opioid pain meds and they were the quick and easy way try and treat pain.

    Not all doctors were nefarious in prescribing those meds, in some cases they were dinged by state medical boards for not adequately treating someones pain, so what do you think was their natural response to that? They started prescribing more pain meds.

Share This Page

38 August 6, 2019