Pakistan: Involved or Incompetent?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Reach9, May 4, 2011.

  1. Reach9 macrumors 68020

    Reach9

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    #1
    I think the 2nd biggest topic which arises from the death of Osama Bin Laden, is Pakistan's role.
    From all the evidence provided, it seems naive to believe that they had no idea that Bin Laden was hiding next to their top military officials for years. I find that appalling. Their ISI (CIA equivalent), has been very uncooperative with the intelligence agencies of top governments around the world.

    A lot of people are wondering why it took so long to capture Osama. I'm starting to believe that Pakistan made America run wild goose chases, and sent them false leads and a few proper ones to remain allies. This might be a partial reason as to why it took them so long to find him.
    Apparently it seemed as though Osama Bin Laden thought that he would be safe with all the military and government officials protecting him. He believed that the government would tip him off if Americans were coming, which would be a testament as to why the Pakistani government were so upset that they were not involved.

    Let's switch this around and look at it from Pakistan's perspective. If an American terrorist killed thousands of their people, and Pakistan asked America to help them find him, only to find the American terrorist after 10 years living next to America's West Point..how would Pakistan view America?

    Pakistan was America's biggest ally in fighting against terrorism, but it seems that they were secretly working against America and might actually be America's biggest enemy in fighting against terrorism. Let's not forget they have nuclear weapons, and is a very unstable state.

    What do you guys think?
     
  2. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #2
    I think we do not need thread #5713296 on the subject. Blah. GaL already.
     
  3. Reach9 thread starter macrumors 68020

    Reach9

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    #3
    Oh was there another topic? Sorry then, can you link me to the most popular?
     
  4. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #4
    I find it highly unlikely that OBL could have been living where he was for so long without someone in the Pakistani gov't knowing...and if they did not know they are complete morons..
     
  5. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #5
    Just another corrupt regime we prop up with our money. No way they weren't complicit in hiding OBL.
     
  6. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #6
    Its a bit deeper than that I think. They are a nuclear nation...I think we are just paying them as a way to keep the more "moderate" people in power and prevent them from using their nukes on India or selling them.
     
  7. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #7
    I'm aware they have nukes. Doesn't change the fact that we're propping up yet another corrupt regime that works against us as well as working with us.
     
  8. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #8
    For as much criticism that exists on this board about the policies of the U.S., I very rarely see anyone offer a realistic option.

    Instead of us propping up the lesser of two evils in Pakistan, what realistic option would you propose?

    Please be realistic and not offer up some fantasy that makes me think you believe in the existence of unicorns, fairies, and elves....
     
  9. barkomatic macrumors 68040

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    #9
    I think it pretty clear Pakistan was directly involved in tipping off OBL and I think the U.S. has known this for years. It doesn't sound like Pakistan "protected" him exactly.

    I would be surprised if the U.S. government pressed this issue. The politics in that region of the world are far too sensitive considering the fact that Pakistan and India are adversarial nuclear powers.
     
  10. rovex macrumors 65816

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    #10
    All the countries there are corrupt like heck. Not exactly earth shattering. Something's going on to locate yourself beside an army facility.

    Bin Laden wasn't being found in the mountains in afghanistan and he was hiding there for years. Something prompted him to move there and I think he felt a sense of security in the Borders of an inconspicuous nation.
     
  11. Liquorpuki macrumors 68020

    Liquorpuki

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    #11
    I remember reading Richard Clarke's book. He wrote that looking forward, he felt Pakistan was the world's #2 Al-Qaeda threat.
     
  12. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #12

    I wish I had an answer to that.
     
  13. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #13
    Double edged sword actually.

    The more people that knew, the more people to leak the information.

    Involvement or ignorance ...

    I won't be surprised to find either one being the case.
     
  14. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #14
    Thats the point, there are not any easy answers. I think its tragic that we spend billions of our hard earned tax dollars supporting these people, but in most cases its a choice between supporting unsavory characters who MIGHT be our allies and MIGHT help promote stability and peace in the region, and not doing anything and allowing someone who certainly is not our ally and will most certainly not promote peace.
     
  15. AP_piano295, May 4, 2011
    Last edited: May 4, 2011

    AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #15
    I think people falsely believe that it is particularly hard to hide even from a highly advanced nation like the United States.

    Some Pakistanis may have known that Osama was there but it isn't as if law enforcement in this country magically knows where the most wanted criminals are.

    Just because he was living near a "west point like school" doesn't mean they're is some omnipotent intelligence operation there. It isn't particularly hard to disappear, I can't understand why people find this so hard to believe.

    Does anyone remember this case:

    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Beltway_sniper_attacks

    A man with a gun and a car in this country managed to kill almost a dozen people one within the city limits of our national capital. And yet it took our government over three months to capture him?? Must have been a conspiracy.

    It's hard to find one person who doesn't want to be found.
     
  16. ender land macrumors 6502a

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    #16
    Not to mention someone with a lot of connections, supporters, and money.
     
  17. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #17

    I don't entirely disagree, but I do think you have to look at the context.

    The compound was heavily fortified, was 8 times larger than other residences in the area, and by all accounts it was known that the people that lived there were fairly secretive. Surely someone, at some point must have at least wondered who lived there and what was going.

    This would have been the equivalent of a castle with a moat going up in a residential neighborhood in suburban America. If that were to happen someone, somewhere (newspaper, etc) would wonder what was going on and try to find out.
     
  18. Apple OC macrumors 68040

    Apple OC

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    #18
    IMO it is very probable that some people did know that he was hiding there other than the people inside the compound ... the question is ... who knew?
     
  19. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #19
    could be as simple as there are a few leaks in Pakistan government/military who are on the Alcita pay rolls and those people could be pretty high up the chain so it would of been leaked out.

    It only takes one person to leak the info and it is all over. Everyone could be good minus 1 person who leaked it and the damage is done.
     
  20. ehoui macrumors regular

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    #20
    I think we need to stop giving countries money when they are working against us.
     
  21. Merkava_4 macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    I don't like the idea of so many nuclear weapons being in such close proximity to extremist wackos.
    I wish there was some way to confiscate their nuclear weapons and then dispose of them.
     
  22. glocke12 macrumors 6502a

    glocke12

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    #22
    Well, thats kind of an " I believe in unicorns and smurfs also" attitude, plus that would involve violating another nations sovereign rights which many here have a problem with.

    Plus with Nuclear India right next to them they will never give them up, although I can almost see a scenario where BOTH countries give up their nukes through a peace treaty but not without LARGE amounts of cash from the U.S.
     
  23. Merkava_4 macrumors 6502a

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    #23
    I'm a big fan of sovereignty too, but if you're gonna have nuclear
    weapons in your country, you need to have a stabile society.

    I can guaranty you the pentagon has a contingency plan for securing
    those nukes if the government of Pakistan was to ever unravel.
     
  24. Reach9 thread starter macrumors 68020

    Reach9

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    #24
    I agree. At least the Indian nation is very stable.
    Even playing devils advocate, there's no way Pakistan wasn't involved in some way or form, we'll be finding out just how in the near future.

    Sorry AP_piano295, America isn't as corrupt as Pakistan. They were keeping Osama safe all this time.
     
  25. Burnsey macrumors 6502a

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    #25
    The stability of Pakistan has been compromised in part because of the US' involvement in that country. When you chase the terrorists into Pakistan and fight them there, well the terrorists are in Pakistan and the fighting will get worse.

    In this particular case I think it's a combination of involved and incompetent. Corrupt security officials and government incompetence were both likely contributors. Also Pakistan's political dynamics are different than what we'd expect. It is a tribal society, loyalties are first to the family, then to the tribe, then to local entities and finally the greater government. Bin Laden and other terrorists could have taken advantage of loyalties at any level of this chain to remain hidden.
     

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