Panther and OS 9

arn

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Apr 9, 2001
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eWeek revives rumors of OS 9's demise in upcoming machines

They said Apple is planning to "block" next-generation Macs preloaded with Panther from booting into Mac OS 9 although the company will continue to support applications running within Mac OS X's Classic environment.

eWeek previously reported the same, but had previously called Apple's upcoming OS "Pinot".
 

teabgs

macrumors 68030
Jan 18, 2002
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ok, thats gonna happen eventually....yet, Jaguar hasnt even officially shipped yet....

Which means its still a ways off.....
 

~/indigo

macrumors newbie
May 18, 2002
10
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Ontario
Not exactly blocked

I am getting thoroughly frustrated with these "news" sites making this out to be a way that Apple is hurting the customer. Apple will not "block" it from booting, they just won't be making any special provisions for OS 9. I am not sure how the internals of 9 work but, for all we know, keeping that booting option may be holding back kick-ass hardware revisions.

One way or another, your current system will still work fine so there is NOTHING to complain about (I have had enough of this: "but I want to boot System 6 on my dual 2 GHz G5!" kind of whining).

I see no cause for concern,
Jeff.
 

arn

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Re: Not exactly blocked

Originally posted by ~/indigo
I am getting thoroughly frustrated with these "news" sites making this out to be a way that Apple is hurting the customer. Apple will not "block" it from booting, they just won't be making any special provisions for OS 9. I am not sure how the internals of 9 work but, for all we know, keeping that booting option may be holding back kick-ass hardware revisions.

One way or another, your current system will still work fine so there is NOTHING to complain about (I have had enough of this: "but I want to boot System 6 on my dual 2 GHz G5!" kind of whining).
You are correct in many ways.... Apple can prevent OS 9 from booting on the new machines by simply not updating it. Every new motherboard requires an update to Mac OS X and OS 9 to allow it to boot. That's why the new machines run Jaguar. If Apple came out with a new Mac (with modified motherboard) in a few months, it would require an updated Mac OS X build to support it.

That being said... I don't see leaving OS 9 as a bad thing... It will be a wakeup call for 3rd party companies to port or be left behind.

And there will be people who complain that they depend on certain OS 9 apps... but, in the end it will be better for all...

arn
 

teabgs

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Jan 18, 2002
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Re: Re: Not exactly blocked

Originally posted by arn


You are correct in many ways.... Apple can prevent OS 9 from booting on the new machines by simply not updating it. Every new motherboard requires an update to Mac OS X and OS 9 to allow it to boot. That's why the new machines run Jaguar. If Apple came out with a new Mac in a few months, it would require an updated Mac OS X build to support it.

That being said... I don't see leaving OS 9 as a bad thing... It will be a wakeup call for 3rd party companies to port or be left behind.

And there will be people who complain that they depend on certain OS 9 apps... but, in the end it will be better for all...

arn
Do you know how that could/would affect upgrade cards?

Not that I'll update anytime soon....but I'm thinking in 2-3 years I'll want to upgrade my dual 1.25 instead of buying a new one....
 

arn

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Re: Re: Re: Not exactly blocked

Originally posted by teabgs


Do you know how that could/would affect upgrade cards?

Not that I'll update anytime soon....but I'm thinking in 2-3 years I'll want to upgrade my dual 1.25 instead of buying a new one....
processor daughter cards don't require os updates... but may require drivers that the daughter card manufacterer provide.

arn
 

MacSlut

macrumors 6502
Aug 12, 2002
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I agree. I don't think Panther has anything to do with it. It's more about not updating 9 from being able to boot up a new machine.

Blocking 9 from booting a machine would be stupid, on the other hand not devoting resources to developing the code modifications and confusing users with another version of 9 just isn't worth it.
 

sparkleytone

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Oct 28, 2001
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Re: Re: Re: Not exactly blocked

Originally posted by teabgs


Do you know how that could/would affect upgrade cards?

Not that I'll update anytime soon....but I'm thinking in 2-3 years I'll want to upgrade my dual 1.25 instead of buying a new one....
but dude!!! we'll have like 1.8-2.067GHz g4s by then!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
 

teabgs

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Jan 18, 2002
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Re: Re: Re: Re: Not exactly blocked

Originally posted by sparkleytone


but dude!!! we'll have like 1.8-2.067GHz g4s by then!!!:rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes: :rolleyes:
yeah but I'll be a year outta college with loans up my ass...plus When im done with suping up my dual 1.25 when it gets here I'll have invested so much into it....
 

robguz

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Jan 13, 2002
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Well I won't be buying a machine that can't boot in 9. Just today I had to. I copied my internal drive to an external, installed 10.2 with the erase option and the only way I could get items from the original copied drive into the new 10.2 was by going into 9 and copying them. X wouldn't let me do that in a million years, especially for things in the System/Library folder. Until X gives me the option to be superuser and move any thing I want without affecting it's usability when I log in as the regular admin, sorry, but I still need 9. Apple has a long way to go before they can ditch 9, otherwise a lot of people with be ditching Apple. I won't, but I just won't buy a new mac from them for much longer than I would if they keep making 9 bootable. To intentionally yank this when it's pretty easy for them to do is nuts. I mean if Ryan Rempel (sp?) can put something together that makes OSX run on a 7 year old 7500, I think Apple can update their new machines to boot in 9.
 

mymemory

macrumors 68020
May 9, 2001
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Switch... but to PC

I'm just coming from a club and 3 different ex mac users had changed to PC, they got sick of OSX and no audio soft for it. The explanation where logical "if is taking a year to get just the software for OSX, imagine how long are gonna take the same plug-ins to run on OSX too. And there is something worst, there are plug ins that still in version one for about two years now, there are share ware programs that are very help full and you won't be able to find them on OSX. "

" The entire audio industry still under OS 9, there is not a single professional software on OSX yet, there are no hard ware support, not plug-ins, nothing, and is gonna take about 2 years to have what we have now but for OSX"

Very realistic statement, I do not think many profesionals will jump in to OSX yet. Every single video and audio production post house in my country runs on 9, jus isolated cases where people are using OSX, and are actually hackers or some other graphic designer but not no one running a real busines.

In my case, I will have to learn the tips and tricks all over again and 80% of the software that I use is under OS9.
 

arn

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Apr 9, 2001
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Originally posted by robguz
Until X gives me the option to be superuser and move any thing I want without affecting it's usability when I log in as the regular admin, sorry, but I still need 9.
You do realize how ridiculous a criteria this is, don't you?

That you won't buy another Macintosh if it doesn't boot OS 9 because you need an entire operating system (OS 9) to copy files for you.

Why don't you just learn how to do it in OS X and save yourself the boot into 9?

I mean if Ryan Rempel (sp?) can put something together that makes OSX run on a 7 year old 7500, I think Apple can update their new machines to boot in 9.
I don't think it's a question of difficulty, so much as a question of forcing adoption by 3rd parties and users.

arn
 

arn

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Re: Switch... but to PC

Originally posted by mymemory

" The entire audio industry still under OS 9, there is not a single professional software on OSX yet, there are no hard ware support, not plug-ins, nothing, and is gonna take about 2 years to have what we have now but for OSX"
It's chicken and the egg...

let me ask you this... Which will more quickly get pro audio apps ported to OS X?

1) Apple supports OS 9 indefinately (5-10 more years)
2) Apple drops OS 9 now.

Obvously, #2. I fully admit, things will be worse for a while... but in the end, it will be much better.

arn
 

idkew

macrumors 68020
apple needs this

apple likes to force switches. remember the usb thing? they left adb for one revision (b&W) and then dropped it for usb. well, we have gotten out one (two) revisions, and now they are dropping old technology.

screw lazy audio app companies, they need to get their arses in gear and make some new software. os x is a much better os when it comes to audio and multimedia (jagwire will show this).

plus, i bet the code name is more likely than pinot. jaguars and panthers are cousins...

i, for one, am not installing os 9 when i reformat for X.2. I'm done with it. and screw Quark. Adobe won my business.
 

Mr. G4

macrumors 6502
Mar 29, 2002
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Rohnert Park, CA
Re: Re: Switch... but to PC

Originally posted by arn


It's chicken and the egg...

let me ask you this... Which will more quickly get pro audio apps ported to OS X?

1) Apple supports OS 9 indefinately (5-10 more years)
2) Apple drops OS 9 now.

Obvously, #2. I fully admit, things will be worse for a while... but in the end, it will be much better.

arn
It's like people who don't want to switch to InDesign and work under OSX and keep complaining that Quark is the worse company when it come to upgrade their program....:p

Common people we live in an evolving world, you need to evolutate and not live in the past...you have to adapt to the new situation. Where would we be if people keep saying that they won't buy a Mac in 1984 because it won't run their Apple ]['s programs??????

Just my 2¢
 

foniks2020

macrumors regular
Apr 19, 2002
168
0
robguz.... there are many methods to do what you had to do in OS X both with and with out 3rd party software. I'm wondering what in System/Library you needed to move so badly that wasn't available to admin user...

first you need to learn how to be superuser. This requires that you open up netinfo manager in utilities. Go to the security menu at top and authenticate, then 'enable root' and provide a password.

now you can copy/move whatever you want from anywhere by going to the command line/terminal and typing cp -Rp [directory] [new directory path/name]

the -Rp means to copy recursively (R) and maintain privildges/permissions (p)

you could also use sudo without enabling root.

oh yeah to become super user in CLI type su (superuser) then enter and give the password you added in netinfo.

using cp or copy is the safest method as you can't mess up and move things accidently, just copy them.

anyways, try looking into some of the basic and easy to read tutorials on command line for more info.

finally there are many 3rd party software apps that will perform these types of functions which have GUIs and use things like authentication windows to make them foolproof.

OS X does pretty much everything you ask it to do, just not the way you learned in OS 9.

I haven't touched 9 since Dreamweaver was released and haven't thought about it twice... maybe if I was an audiophile or needed Quark but then I'd just be pissed at those companies the same way I was with Adobe and Macromedia for taking sooo long to get their apps out.
 

foniks2020

macrumors regular
Apr 19, 2002
168
0
One more thing Robguz... try logging in as root after you enable it.

Just click on 'Other' when you login instead of a name and type in root and the password you chose.... now you are super user with Aqua GUI.
 

marcsiry

macrumors member
Jul 16, 2002
88
0
Rats!

Where am I going to go for my Type 3 Errors and "Out of Memory" messages now?!?!

Stuck with OS X! How....productive!

I disagree with the earlier poster who says no pros are using it. I'm definitely a pro and I'm churning out work like crazy on OSX. Print-to-PDF is the bee's knees!
 

BongHits

macrumors regular
May 2, 2002
181
0
chicago
Re: Re: Re: Switch... but to PC

Originally posted by Mr. G4


It's like people who don't want to switch to InDesign and work under OSX and keep complaining that Quark is the worse company when it come to upgrade their program....:p

Common people we live in an evolving world, you need to evolutate and not live in the past...you have to adapt to the new situation. Where would we be if people keep saying that they won't buy a Mac in 1984 because it won't run their Apple ]['s programs??????

Just my 2¢
...we live in an evolving world, you need to evolutate...
do you mean evolve?
 

Choppaface

macrumors 65816
Jan 22, 2002
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hmmm how bout supporting my scanner before you drop 9 apple? or at least tip off a developer to write some sort of TWAIN app that will be compatible with it.....

if they're really dropping 9 then it would be nice to see some aqua/PDF-specfic hardware or what not....if they could cut latency to a tenth of what is is now instead of just cutting it in half, now that might make upgrading to a new machine worth it...
 

peterjhill

macrumors 65816
Apr 25, 2002
1,095
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Seattle, WA
The classic OS (not classic, but pre-os x) was designed to be a single user OS. Mac OS X is most definitely designed to be a multiple user mac. As for not being able to copy files, if you don't know how to do it in X, you probably shouldn't be doing it by booting into 9. You are just asking for trouble. If you decide to run as root all the time, you are most definitely asking for trouble. They don't put those file protections on their just for kicks, they are doing it to protect the user from themselves.

Be warned! It's not a bug, it's a feature ;-)
 

Pelorus

macrumors regular
Aug 25, 2001
106
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Originally posted by Choppaface
hmmm how bout supporting my scanner before you drop 9 apple? or at least tip off a developer to write some sort of TWAIN app that will be compatible with it.....
I don't see the problem here. Agfa developed excellent drivers for OSX (and then stopped supporting consumer scanners.) The problem with scanning is the hardware developer and ...duh...isn't that always the problem. Apple's now made it easy for them to fix it by supporting scanning in Image Capture. All the hardware companies have to do is provide the hooks.

if they're really dropping 9 then it would be nice to see some aqua/PDF-specfic hardware or what not....if they could cut latency to a tenth of what is is now instead of just cutting it in half, now that might make upgrading to a new machine worth it...
I'd prefer it if we didn't see "specific" hardware like this. Nasty stuff really.
 

pgwalsh

macrumors 68000
Jun 21, 2002
1,639
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New Zealand
I think this a bold, but good move. I've heard gripes in the education market, but they'll get over it. I'm making the switch today as Jaguar is released. :cool:
 

MacArtist

macrumors member
Jul 24, 2002
75
0
Originally posted by Choppaface
hmmm how bout supporting my scanner before you drop 9 apple? or at least tip off a developer to write some sort of TWAIN app that will be compatible with it.....

if they're really dropping 9 then it would be nice to see some aqua/PDF-specfic hardware or what not....if they could cut latency to a tenth of what is is now instead of just cutting it in half, now that might make upgrading to a new machine worth it...
I'm going to asume that OS X.2 will finally bring scanners over to because if I'm not mistaken it has built-in twain support. The reason why no scanners are OS X compatible yet is because the TWAIN Group was still trying to work out all of the specifications for twain drivers in OS X. It's not just Apple's fault, it's not just the scanner manufacturer's fault, it's the fault of every member of the TWAIN group.

And by the way I've been using my Epson Perfection 1250 Photo scanner in OS X for ~4 months with a beta driver.
 
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