Panther gripes - revisited

Discussion in 'Mac OS X 10.3 (Panther) Discussion' started by shoez, Mar 9, 2004.

  1. shoez macrumors newbie

    Dec 8, 2003
    Hello all...

    I recently posted a list of the current gripes I've got with Panther... but it was to the middle of a discussion, and I think it's right to get a list together to send off to Apple in the hope some things can be sorted out. Here's my current list, please anyone who has noticed bugs or slack UI design - post!

    word highlight different in each application

    everything is so big

    can't stop stuff which is causing the system to lock up in safari (assessing a localhost for instance) - pizza wheel appears

    no "mail to" action on right-click file select

    activity monitor takes up 156mb of virtual memory!?

    can't see size of file just by clicking on it (tool/taskbar)

    expose is sluggish initially

    can't tab to pulldown menus or radio clicks -why?? (Even with Universal Access settings on)

    system reacts slowly

    sometimes when dropping stuff into the Applications folder, it seems to go in but disappears - not to be found in either location without a word of warning.

    volume and brightness controls can be very slow to operate.

    itunes doesn't show enough/allow enough time to see the whole Shoutcast title. Should allow grabbing scroller and manually shifting it left<>right

    Font listing!!! (in Word), way too big, can't scroll quickly, and can't quickly jump to an entry by typing the first few letters of the name.

    Can't perform undo+redo operations in form boxes in Safari

    The way safari doesn't seem to cache and page, and when returning to the previous page starts at the top and moves down after other page elements have reloaded

    When returning to a page in Safari, starts at the top, manually scroll to a place of your bidding - when it finally finishes reloading the page it jumps back to the original place (linked with bug above)

    Safari - a page fails to load, message dialogue appears, address bar loses focus so can't quickly reload the page.

    Safari - when you write a long document in a textarea window in one tab, go into another tab and return back, the textarea remains in focus but it scrolls back up to the top (cursor remains at the bottom)

    No easy way to arrange files which may be oddly spaced all over a directory

    No fast way to sort by name, date, etc. when in large icon mode

    too much bloody space wasted with windows - spacing pretty crap

    itunes - select a load of tunes in a finder window, drag them across to iTunes (the left-most window-playlists). iTunes automatically creates a playlist (good), highlights the "untitled playlist n" text, but doesn't transfer window focus.

    iTunes - doesn't seem to recognise the numbers at the start of a filename...

    calculator doesn't show zeros when they are being input after a decimal point.

    iPhoto leaves the camera display on while downloading photos!

    iPhoto doesn't download camera movies

    iPhoto is slow, takes ages to connect to camera and start to process images. Pizza wheel of doom shows regularly.

    iPhoto doesn't show current file location - just a file name!!

    iPhoto/Finder doesn't seem to show icon previews of some JPG images!?

    Safari/Finder won't allow you a contextual right/ctrl-click file options menu. So I can browse for files in Safari, find one and open it, archive it, etc. from the dialog. Rationale: If I'm uploading a photo to a website, I want to definitively find out what it is beforehand (rather than using separate Finder window).

    Safari - page search function is sorely lacking. Needs to allow searches to be wrapped, search from top/bottom/current location.

    Networking/Finder - doesn't seem to remember my Windows networking password in my key chain. I always have to retype it.

    Finder - attempt to drag something into main Applications folder - item already exists, and Finder prompts "replace/cancel" - then it tells me I don't have sufficient permissions but doesn't give me a dialog to enter a username and password!

    Accounts/System - can't seem to switch a user to be the "Main" one ?

    Finder - Column mode: at times Finder doesn't scale the column size according to the directory/file listing size - this is good in some cases, where the column may actually have something to display, but otherwise there is just a blank column which forces a scrolling exercise upon the user.

    Finder - can't see Windows shares that are named greater than a certain amount of characters.

    Finder/open file - view settings aren't saved. For instance I select to open a file in an application, resize one of the columns, and it always returns back to the original size.

    scrolling large documents can be very sluggish.

    Finder - very occasionally crashes (Icon is still there, appears to be loaded into memory, but there are no windows) and there appears to be no way to restart the process ?

    Finder/connecting to an FTP server - recurses through every directory on the server!

    Flash on OS X really is painfully slow (don't know who's fault this is, but on Windows it flys)
  2. wordmunger macrumors 603


    Sep 3, 2003
    North Carolina
    Wow! That's quite a list. Some of them don't apply to me, though (slow expose, volume, sound, for example). Now the question is, how do you get Apple to notice that this is a serious community effort, not just one isolated response?

    Edit: Here's an idea--when you've got it finalized, why not submit to a mac discussion forum like MacSlash or We know Steve (or his minions) pay attention to such things.
  3. stoid macrumors 601


    Feb 17, 2002
    So long, and thanks for all the fish!
    I don't think you mentioned this one.

    Safari - If one page is loading, I have to stop it from loading if I want to type in another web address. If Safari is trying to access the first page, and I start entering a new address, when the first page starts sending information it replaces my typing with the loading address and shows the progress.
  4. shoez thread starter macrumors newbie

    Dec 8, 2003
    Just found another as well...

    Finder - Expose/F11, select items from desktop, get a Finder window which is in search mode (completed), spring open the Public folder from the sidebar, drop files into another folder inside Public. Files aren't copied, desktop disappears initially and Finder window dies.
  5. bousozoku Moderator emeritus

    Jun 25, 2002
    Gone but not forgotten.
    Why tell us? Tell Apple and the other developers such as Macromedia.

    We're not going to change anything for you.
  6. shoez thread starter macrumors newbie

    Dec 8, 2003
    bousozoku, why discuss anything here relating to other peoples products? As my boilerplate on the first post made clear, this is in an effort to produce a discursive list which can be sent to the bods at Apple. Please don't get defensive just because people may wish to criticise the application they shelled out dollars for. As a developer myself, I very much appreciate people pointing out flaws because it allows me to revisit the code and fix things. At the end of the day, isn't that what we all want - an even slicker OS X?

  7. Counterfit macrumors G3


    Aug 20, 2003
    sitting on your shoulder
    Post I shall...

    change your resolution

    That would be handy
    eveything takes up lots of virtual memory. On my system, aped takes up 312KB of real memory, but 27.25MB of virtual memory.
    I'm not sure what you mean there.
    It's been very quick all the time for me, what kind of Mac are you on?
    see above
    Don't think I've seen this. Must be annoying
    Very annoying, but is it a problem with Panther in particular?
    this is an iTunes problem, not Panther.

    A problem in Word?!! *gasp* How could Apple let this happen?!?!
    Extrememly annoying when you flub up, but not a Panther problem
    This is weird, but inconsistent and still not a Panther problem.
    Patience is a virtue. And it's still not a Panther problem.
    Hit return twice, that will reload it. (once for the dialog, another to reload)
    Annoying yet again, but still not a Panther problem.
    When in icon view, there's the submenu "Arrange" under the View menu, it lets you sort the icons by Name, Date modified/created, etc.
    Personal preference :)

    There's a whole "click-through" thing going on, but it should do that... and yet still not a Panther problem.

    iTunes uses ID3 tags, and there are apps to convert filenames to the tags. Again, not a Panther thing.

    Well, that's odd. Should be showing them.

    This might be on a camera by camera basis, but I use a CF -> PCMCIA adapter so...


    Do you have iPhoto 4?

    It stores a copy of the original image once you edit it, so the image could be in two separate places.


    I understand previewing, that would help greatly, but archiving?

    They do wrap, if more than one item is found.

    Nor does it remember passwords for AFP shares, but I think that's a security issue.

    You can either use an admin account (if possible) or change the permissions to allow non-admin users to write to /Applications

    There's auto-login...

    I was unaware that it scaled columns at all, which would be handy

    I thought HFS+ and Finder supported more characters than Windows, well, FAT32 at least. But I don't use Windows shares so I dunno.

    If I've noticed this, I don't remember.

    If you use a Bondi iMac, you shouldn't be complaining (I don't think you do, but you get the idea)

    If it does crash (seems to happen more now), you can right/ctrl click on the icon and select relaunch, or choose force quit from the Apple Menu, or do the Opt-cmd-esc shortcut.

    Finder sucks for FTP, there are plenty of good free apps out there on VersionTracker and MacUpdate

    That's probably Macromedia's fault.
  8. shoez thread starter macrumors newbie

    Dec 8, 2003
    Okay Counterfit, point taken - a number of bugs on my list are Apple product-centric rather than specifically targetted at Panther. So my title was misleading, but I don't think it required such a long, bug-by-bug dissection to tell me that, did it? - suppose I did post in the wrong forum as well ;)

    However one thing, you mention the font listing - well it probably is the fault of the OS for not providing a better scrolling list widget - I've seen it everywhere from Safari, to Word, to Dreamweaver.

  9. HexMonkey Administrator


    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2004
    New Zealand
    What exactly is so big? A lot of things can be resized. For example, the Dock, column widths, text sizes in Safari and Finder, icon sizes etc. You can also hide toolbars (especially in Finder), hide the Dock etc...
  10. ChrisH3677 macrumors 6502a

    Oct 6, 2003
    Victoria, Australia
    Here's two that comes to mind for me

    1) In Aqua apps, change the window bar back to the horizontal lines. The rolled grey look is way too similar to the Silver theme in WinXP. And it looks cheap to me.

    2) Why no Ctrl-Click functionality on items in the Finder Sidebar? Seems to have been an oversight.
  11. ElectricSheep macrumors 6502


    Feb 18, 2004
    Wilmington, DE
    Yes, you can. You just aren't looking in the right places for the right options.

    You need to first enable access to assistive devices from the Universal Access pane, then you need to switch to the Keyboard/Mouse pane and enable the option 'Turn on full keyboard access' under the Keyboard Shortcuts tab.
  12. jxyama macrumors 68040


    Apr 3, 2003
    one thing i noticed... in many apps, open/save as window automatically uses column view. when you scroll horizontally to access different level of folders, upon letting go the scroll bar, the columns (often) jerk so that columns are aligned. this is a bad design - users are often forced to look at the columns again to make sure one is in the right place.

    apple needs to either make the horizontal scroll bar, which is continuous right now, discontinuous so that users can only "scroll" to positions where columns are always aligned or not jerk the columns around once the scroll bar is let go.
  13. jxyama macrumors 68040


    Apr 3, 2003
    btw, i agree on this. things are "big" in panther finder. they take up a lot more space than they used to in jaguar. the thick metal brush borders... unadjustable and annoyingly large buffers around each icon when aligned... just a lot of wasted space. the fact many of them can be hidden or disabled doesn't change the fundamental flaw with the design. screen real estate is precious and i would have thought they'd make sure to make good use of it - or at least, give users customizability so that we can tighten the Finder UI without sacrificing the look and feel...

    hiding the toolbar to "save" space isn't really an ideal solution... i *like* the toolbar. i just wish it made a better use of the space available!
  14. DavidLeblond macrumors 68020


    Jan 6, 2004
    Raleigh, NC
    No offense, but have you ever looked in your finder preferences? You might learn something :p
  15. jxyama macrumors 68040


    Apr 3, 2003
    no offense, but this does happen. even with the preferences set correctly to show previews, some of the pics don't show the preview for some odd reason.
  16. Horrortaxi macrumors 68020


    Jul 6, 2003
    Los Angeles
    Some valid personal opinions were expressed, but for the most part it sounds like you need to get some more experience with your computer/OS.
  17. shoez thread starter macrumors newbie

    Dec 8, 2003
    I'm sorry, but I find that kind of attitude so incredibly offensive. So because Safari might not offer a decent page search feature, or because I may have to retype my network share password each time (despite having a add to keychain), that's something I need to adapt to? Well I think that kind of attitude stinks. If my car has spongy brakes for example, I'm going to take the thing in and get them repaired/replaced. As I'm sure you're quite aware, we're unable to do this with our Operating System. A large portion of my list features bugs, and little annoyances - they're not quirks or characteristics, I should not have to adapt to them. The success of Mac is predicated on its ease of use, it's intuitive interface, and it's well designed hardware. Well I'm pleased so far with my little 12", but I want stuff fixed. And yes, I would be willing to pay.

    jxyama, you've got it right with the toolbar, I use it every day and it's brilliant - but icon spacing is hopeless.

    As for that little tip on checking the "assistive devices" (wtf!?!?) box - thanks a million! It's worked a treat :)

  18. stubeeef macrumors 68030


    Aug 10, 2004
    This was helpful in one of my biggest beefs. BUT now that i can tab to the pulldown (this stumped the genius bar by the way) I can not type the first letter to get it to come up as the choice, I have to scroll through all the options and then hit enter. Do you know of a fix?
  19. beatle888 macrumors 68000


    Feb 3, 2002


    my initial response to this thread was shoez might not be very familiar with apple and is getting a little impatient. a lot of the "problems" listed could be solved with preferences and more ram perhaps. anyway i'll say thanks to Counterfit for taking the time to shine on the darkness.
  20. Santiago macrumors regular

    Jun 14, 2002
    Mountain View, California
    That's the application's fault. Applications which use the system-wide built-in text engine behave the same.

    Sure you can, if you're in Column View—the mode which has a dedicated place in the UI for displaying information about a file.

    This is due to VM. If you haven't used something in a while, it gets paged to disk because other processes need the memory. When you first invoke Expose or on-screen controls, it needs to page in the code for this stuff and maybe some of the window images. More RAM will mitigate this problem.

    Well, that would be Word's problem, not Apple's. Microsoft Office in general fails to use built-in features and re-implements them in similar but annoyingly different ways.

    View > Arrange > by <whatever>

    What do you want iTunes to do with them? This isn't a bug, it's a feature. iTunes gives you the option of prepending track numbers or not to the filename as a hack to force the tracks to display in album order when viewed in the Finder. iTunes has a dedicated column for track number, thus there is no need to conflate the track number with the actual track name displayed in iTunes.

    This is your camera's fault. Mine does not do this.

    iPhoto is not a file system browser. It is an image database. Images are kept as both the original and as the potentially edited version. If you want a fresh, sensibly-named copy, use the Export feature.

    There is no "Main" account. Accounts can have Admin privileges or not. You can set up one account to be automatically logged in at system startup, but that doesn't give the account any special privileges.

    Complain to Macromedia.
  21. stubeeef macrumors 68030


    Aug 10, 2004
    So, anybody got a fix to my previous problem? I can now tab to a pulldown menu by enabling the entire keyboard, but once there I can not choose an item by typing the first letter and it come up. Am using 10.3.5 and most uptodate safari.

    Thanks in advance.
  22. HexMonkey Administrator


    Staff Member

    Feb 5, 2004
    New Zealand
    Once the menu is selected, hit the spacebar to make the menu pop up, and then you can type the first letter of the item you want to choose.
  23. mkrishnan Moderator emeritus


    Jan 9, 2004
    Grand Rapids, MI, USA
    Well, it isn't *perfect* but once you tab to the pulldown, if you press the down-arrow or up-arrow to expand it, then you can use letter keys to jump to the item you want. You can type more than one letter, and as long as type quickly, it will jump to the appropriate item (like "B" goes to Ball, "BU" goes to "Button"). EDIT: beaten to it....

    BTW, I think too that some people here are being a little too harsh on this thread. We all like Apple products enough to use them, but that doesn't mean they're perfect.... Hmmm, I'll add a small one to the list. I *do* consider Safari to be part of Panther -- you get Safari updates by getting Panther OS updates, don't you? 10.3.6 came with one. I think 10.3.4 did too....

    Anyway, I wish Safari would adopt whatever standard MSIE uses for allowing buttons in something like this forum text editor to insert elements into the text at the caret instead of at the end of the text. Like if I scroll up and try to add a smiley, it goes at end of my writing. MSIE on the PC seems to handle this consistently. IIRC Firefox does too.
  24. stubeeef macrumors 68030


    Aug 10, 2004
    thank you both very much.
    I will try it when I get home, I'm in the road with the company mswincrap so it will give me something to try. Will try firefox soon, I've heard a lot of good just not taken the time.

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