Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.


macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
This Microsoft Watch article by Mary Jo Foley and Matthew Rothenberg provides some preliminary (premature?) comparisons between the two unreleased OS's.

Anticipated Panther features are recapped, starting with rumors of performance boosts in the areas of launch, boot and log-in times. Other features borrowed from XP are also described:

For features, Apple is burning the midnight oil to add capabilities that will rival Windows Terminal Services' access to multiple desktops, XP's ability to create profiles that travel with them among machines, and extensible help-system features that allow third-party developers to provide support and updates from within the OS. Add in such niceties as transparent, file system-level compression and encryption, and Apple has a sizeable task list in front of it.

The article also describes the anticipated features for Longhorn (due in 2005)... with some cues taken from Apple (compositing-video-interface) and advanced features such as "natural-language query capabilites".

With a target date of 2005, it seems that Panther comparisons are premature as Panther will be two years old by Longhorn's release.


macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
Middle Earth
By the time Longhorn ships the successor to Panther will be replaced soon. I don't expect Microsoft to offer the features of the current OSX when Longhorn ships.


macrumors Penryn
Dec 27, 2002
Location Location Location
Yeah, by the time an actual comparison can be made, nobody will be able to remember what specific features Panther had and what it didn't have, since updates to the OS happen all the time.


macrumors 65816
Jan 22, 2002
3rd rock from the sun...
OMG... 2 years are a long time in OS business. It's almost funny that they compare Panther to Longhorn already. Let's see what Apple has up it's sleeves in two years and then compare... journalists can be so ignorant, espeaicially when they are on the payroll of M$! :D ;)

It would have been much more interesting to see a real feature comparison between XP and Panther, but I guess that would have been not very flattering for XP...

In the meantime I am looking forward to new soft- and hardware in the near future by Apple. :cool:



macrumors member
Mar 19, 2003
The Netherlands
Pretty convenient for Microsoft. They never actually innovate, they just wait and see what works in the market and then release and aggressively promote their propietry variant of the technology, which is usually somewhat less complex to use that their competitor's (older) offerings.

See IE, C#, SQL server.

What also fits the pattern is that they start a hype *years* in advance. This makes competitors nervous and makes buyers wait and reluctant to look at a competitor's product.

Anyway, since M$ strength (believe it or not) is to make an easier to use variant of existing technology, it will be interesting to see how they compete with Apple. I doubt if they can improve on the usability of Apple's products.


macrumors 65816
Aug 6, 2002
Comparison of Mac and Win?
Who cares, if you use Mac you boo the Windows, if you use the Window you'll (get arrested) boo the macs...


macrumors regular
Jan 23, 2003
down on the upside
possible miss

i think some of you are reading this the wrong way. yeah, it's pretty dumb for a journalist (or anyone for that matter) to compare an OS being released in 3 or so months with one coming out in 2 years. what struck me was that for the first time in a while MS is somewhat in a development lull in their product cycle for desktop OSes. For the same reason comparing Pather to Longhorn is a bit out of scope, so is comparing Panther to XP. The point being that the panther-xp comparison is the only one that can be made until the debut of longhorn . . .
good news for apple i say. take as long as you want MS. i'm still not going back. :D
IMO apple got it right with music rights, and palladium and longhorn are not the future of computer security.


macrumors member
Mar 15, 2003
New Zealand
Re: possible miss

Originally posted by herocero [/i
palladium and longhorn are not the future of computer security. [/B]

Quite right, I forgot about that, palladium sounds like its making the user barely more than a supervisor.


macrumors newbie
May 12, 2003
The Hague
To be fair I thought this was quite a balanced article. It clearly stated that Panther should be assessed against XP as Longhorn won't be released until 2005.

It even states that Apple will rule the desktop OS environment until Longhorn comes out. Given the development pace of OS X, I think the next 2 years look healthy for Mac users, as long as Apple keeps on innovating (and listening to users).

I use Windows 2000 at work (no choice) and since I bought my first Apple in Oct 2001 I haven't used any other OS at home at all (I used to use Linux for a number of years).

I don't know about you but I'm looking forward to Panther being released soon...


macrumors newbie
Feb 13, 2003
The Netherlands
Panther will be going head-to-head with XP, not Longhorn. And XP shipped in 2001.

Euhm, I am wondering about this, I think it was OS X that was going head-to-head with XP, and OS X was first. I feel XP is kinda a "copy" of OS X. A REALLY MESSED UP COPY!!!! Ask pro winblows users, most will say XP = crap! how many pro mac users will say X = crap? Lots of users of XP want back to other OS, like ME, NT and 2000. How many want back to OS 9?

Apple has been careful not to underestimate Microsoft on the OS front. Indeed, even though Mac users have been fulsome in their praise of the features and speed of the current version, 10.2, of Mac OS X (a k a Jaguar), Apple insiders are well-aware of areas where XP is ahead of Mac OS X.

F*CK THAT, damn, XP sucks in any way you look at it, the only way to use XP is having an 1+ GHz P4, with at least 256 MB RAM, while I use jaguar on an G3/400 MHz with 192 MB RAM, and I have no problems... I am really wondering about the good things from XP. I use OS X with lots of pleasure, and I don't like XP (which I sometimes use because of games).

Better search throughout. The goal: to out-google Google.

Nice plan, but then again, 2 years for a better search?

Microsoft last week said on the record that it won't RTM (release to manufacturing) until 2005.

DAMN, think about this : when Longthorn = finished, nothing can use it (all kinds of new technics), and Mac, would have 10.5 already, probably. Then 10.5 would be so far infront of Longthorn!! that they again need 2 years to come with something betters.. a$$holes

yumpin yiminy

macrumors member
Feb 20, 2003
Matthew Rothenberg writes alot about the Mac (for the Wall Street Journal?) so that is likely where the balance found in that article comes from.
It does seem rather odd to say that the future of Windows is going to one up the next Mac OS update. Much more silly than saying the last version of Windows could continue to put the next MacOS to shame. But, that is part of what the article says.

and for those who didn't catch it, As The Apple Turns ( has a link to this:
one of the possible effects in Longhorn.
As Appleturns points out, it is kind of pointless looking, isn't it? Like shaking a transparency/acetate to hear the noise it makes. Serves no discernable good GUI purpose.

On a side note, MS' research pages on their website do have a link to the proposed 3D environment they were thinking about several years ago. Longhorn seems to kind of have that but still in its early stages looks like an Aqua clone.
Desktop pictures don't make a GUI work any better nor does it improve a computer.


macrumors 68000
Jun 7, 2002
Windows annoyances...

Originally posted by chimay
I use Windows 2000 at work (no choice)

That's my situation exactly. I think it's a lot of Mac users' situation, am I right? How do we all like Windows 2000?

I wrote down a few Windows annoyances the other week:

- When dragging files in the Windows Explorer to a folder near the bottom of the folder list, the Explorer thinks it's very handy if it scrolls up automatically, even when you're not at the bottom yet. So if you needed to drop the files in the folder just above the (visibly) last one, and released the mouse button too soon, the files get put in the wrong folder. Annoying!
- When needing to open multiple files, I'm very used to highlighting them all and double clicking one of them. Doesn't work in Windows; it'll only open the one you double clicked. You have to use the right mouse button and choose "Open" in the contextual menu. Plan stupid!
- In Word (not Windows, but still Microsoft, so I think this one is valid) there's a menu where you can fill in words that you want Word to autocorrect. There are two buttons in that window: 'OK' and 'Close', but they do exactly the same. One would think that 'Close' would simply close the window and forget the changes, but there's no 'undo' function there; no 'Cancel'. Illogical!
- I haven't seen this one myself, but a friend of mine told me he'd seen this one some time when trying to cancel a print job. The window had two buttons: 'Print' and 'Cancel', sounds logical? It is. But when he chose 'Cancel' he was presented a new window, asking if he really wanted to cancel the job. The buttons on that window? 'OK' and 'Cancel'. Funny but very unclear!
- When using an English application on a 'regional' Windows version, some buttons in the application will be in Windows' own language. (This happens the other way around when right clicking a file belonging to an English application.) Weird!
- Menu delay. Why would I want submenus to be displayed with a delay I can't change? Really annoying, so you end up clicking all the menu options to instantly open submenus. RSI!
- In the Mac OS, you say you don't want any messages when empying the trash. In Windows, you have the same choice. But when emptying, it still asks you if you're sure. I turned that off!
- On the desktop, when no Windows Explorer window is opened, there's no menu bar. So some über simple commands like 'Open', 'Print' and others like that can only be invoked using the contextual menu. Very unclear!

Are there others who think those points above are very annoying too? Do you experience other annoyances? Let's bash Windows here! (I say it's allowed, so go ahead!)

:rolleyes: ;) :p :D :) :cool:


macrumors member
Jan 26, 2003
Re: Windows annoyances...

Originally posted by Bengt77
Are there others who think those points above are very annoying too? Do you experience other annoyances? Let's bash Windows here! (I say it's allowed, so go ahead!)

I have some of the same complaints, except my recycle bin never bothers me with that silly question. Some of the others can be fixed if you are knowledgable enough (or use a tool like Microsoft's TweakUI).

To be fair, Jaguar is far from the human interface example that it should have been, especially coming from Apple. I feel there are some minor idiosyncrasies, and some really major mistakes (which have probably been hashed out in other threads).

I started on the Mac, but I've also been a Windows user for many years. If you know how to tame the beast, you can enjoy it as a very stable, pleasantly fast operating system (please don't flame; your mileage may vary!). It is quite ugly and prone to terrible user interface design, but quite frankly, you can't beat the performance of x86 hardware (yet).

When you use cross-platform apps like Photoshop and Maya all day long, the operating system specifics hardly matter anyway, as long as the system is stable and fast. To that end, my Windows box delivers. I use my PowerBook for everything else -- development, email, web, AIM -- but it'll be a long time before I can afford any Mac as fast as my PC for real work (but I'm keeping my fingers crossed for WWDC).

Mac OS X, simply put, is enjoyable to use; Windows lacks personality. Just bring on the speed boosts, Apple -- and the QuadroFX's, please! :)


macrumors newbie
Jul 24, 2002
New York
>>It's almost funny that they compare Panther to Longhorn already. Let's see what Apple has up it's sleeves in two years and then compare... journalists can be so ignorant, espeaicially when they are on the payroll of M$!


Now wait just a minute ... That's exactly what we said! (Not the part about being on Microsoft's payroll, which is absurd, but the part about Apple prepping a two-year lead on MS.)

In this piece, we cited internal Apple efforts to address specific performance and feature issues where the company itself feels it currently lags XP.

If the majority of these are indeed nailed in Panther and Apple sticks to its current annual cycle of major OS upgrades, it'll be a couple of revs ahead of Microsoft's 2005 release date for Longhorn, much of which which Microsoft is explicitly aiming at Mac OS X.

So, yes: Panther is way ahead of Longhorn, and should remain so for a long time. Where exactly do we disagree? :)

Matthew Rothenberg
Managing editor
Ziff Davis Internet


macrumors 68000
Jun 7, 2002
Matthew Rothenberg...

Originally posted by mrothenberg
Matthew Rothenberg
Managing editor
Ziff Davis Internet

Whoohoo! We have Matthew Rothenberg on the MacRumors forum!



macrumors regular
Jul 22, 2002
New Jersey
Matthew Rothenberg
Managing editor
Ziff Davis Internet

Now you are registered: Jul 2002
Location: New York, and are considered a macrumors newbie.

I have the same problem (I wouldn't mind it) if not for the fact that they show many that have registered MUCH later, and have the title of macrumors regular.

What's up with that?

I demand a recount. :mad:

BTW.... as a Windows user OSX Blows Windows outta the water.

The only thing stopping me from making an Apple tower purchase is that the current hardware is WAYYYYYY tooooo SLOOOOWWWWW; I'm not waiting for the 970 to appear: I'm waiting to see if it's fast as it SHOULD BE, before I consider a purchase. It would be an huge let-down to jump to a purchase (before seeing a performance test) that could end up being a very expensive mistake.


macrumors 65816
Mar 7, 2003
Re: ???

Originally posted by ollywilson2003
Is this a bad comparison or what?

By the time Longhorn comes out 10.5 will also be out. (or coming out)
not really. longhorn will be released in january or febuary....
but 10.4 will be out for good.


macrumors regular
Jan 4, 2002
Knoxville, TN
More W2K goodies

One of my Windows faves is:

1. Open a Windows Explorer window
2. Pop open a folder within a folder
3. Click the folder so the contents are displayed in the right-hand pane
4. Try and delete the parent folder (right-click and choose delete).

You can't do it because the "file system" believes the folder is in use because you are viewing its contents. The only way to delete it is to move so its contents aren't displayed in the right-hand pane.

One of my OSX comparisons is:
1. Open a file (say on the desktop for easy access)
2. Access the file icon on the desktop and change the filename.
3. Works like a charm.

So, in OSX, you can rename an open file, change a file or folder name or anything along those lines. No problem. Windows... Cough, hack, no can do.

One of many little niceties that make OS X so better.


macrumors member
Mar 19, 2003
The Netherlands
Originally posted by chimay
I use Windows 2000 at work (no choice) and since I bought my first Apple in Oct 2001 I haven't used any other OS at home at all (I used to use Linux for a number of years).

Too right!! I have XP and Linux at home (and NT! at work :-(( ) and my main comp is and will be my Mac. The OS X experience is just so much better.

BTW. Chimay, we might be neighbours ;-)
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.