Paradise Papers ensnare Commerce Sec. Wilbur Ross

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jerwin, Nov 5, 2017.

  1. jerwin macrumors 68020

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    #1
    Looks he like might have some uncomfortable questions to answer about his financial ties to Putin et al.

    http://nymag.com/daily/intelligence...en-wilbur-ross-and-putin-linked-business.html
    The republicans are determined to ram their tax package through, which means there might not be time to ask why such tax evasion schemes can be plausibly described as "arcane, but legal."
     
  2. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #2
    Amazing how those swamp monsters keep finding their way back to the swamp.
     
  3. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #3
    And?
    This is going to snare a lot of people from all areas and all kinds of places.
    At that level it is a lot more who isn't than who is.
     
  4. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #4
    The story is not just that individual people have been robbing us of taxes, but basically those among us who could most afford to pay. I await the prosecutions, just like I did for the fraudulent bankers. *cough*
     
  5. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    One aspect that is eluding me; these dealings do not appear to be illegal per se. Interesting. It isn't the "OMG" that some headlines are trying to report it. I am seeing a lot of "could be" and "may have" and "appears". (ARTICLE)

    Take Ross, he followed and provided all of the information that was required and requested. If he did something illegal he should be prosecuted. What I am seeing does not fall into this category. Let it play out without the distraction "let's screw somebody over" all in the name of "Find Russia".

    I have followed a bit of this via Süddeutsche Zeitung and Panorama for a while now. One ongoing question: How to verify the data in the PP. A lot of interesting strings. We need not be so quick to pull one and yell "OMG" without verifying it first..
     
  6. CaptMurdock Suspended

    CaptMurdock

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    #6
    Seriously? What part of "did not disclose to Congress that which he was required to disclose" do you not understand?? I don't care if he was selling Girl Scout Cookies in Gorky Park -- if so, then SAY "I sold some Thin Mints and Tagalogs in Gorky Park, Senator; anything else you want to know?"

    Mamma mia, it's like they think the word "disclosure" means "a pathologicaly inability to shut the refrigerator door". o_O
     
  7. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    Why is Blumenthal or anyone else surprised? Rachel Maddow was reporting on Ross's shady Russian ties long long ago, He is right up there with Manafort in shadiness. Expect him to go down too eventually. Will Trump and company be calling him an unpaid volunteer they hardly knew? :D
     
  8. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

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    #8
    Go back and read some of the articles including the one I linked. This looks to be a case of "What do I need to provide" vs. "What some people think I should provide?".

    This is why I asked the question. I am looking for other answers outside of the ones I am seeing/reading. The "Seriously" you provided doesn't do much.
     
  9. Bug-Creator macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    Those that should have made sure that this illegal are far to often listed in these "leaks".

    The scandal isn't that they didn't pay taxes, the scandal is that it is legal.
     
  10. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #10
    The BBC seems to be fairly reliable in terms of reporting and the leaked documents seem to be genuine. You're right, though, innocent until proven guilty, and much of this seems to be perfectly legal. Which is why we need to change the law, at least for tax avoidance and evasion. For those that managed to violate already ridiculously lax laws, they should be prosecuted into the stone age.

    Not so sure about Ross - if there is a case that he misled Congress, then he should be prosecuted and judged. If not, so be it.
     
  11. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    The most corrupt administration ever. Makes the Reagan administration look good.
     
  12. CaptMurdock Suspended

    CaptMurdock

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    #12
    I have read the article you linked. It looks more like a case of "What do I need to provide" vs. What can I get away with if I don't mention it?"
     
  13. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #13
    I'd caution against making too much out of this revelation.

    The truth of the matter is that plenty of wealthy people have investments with holdings in foreign countries. And very often those countries have tax regimes that are different (ie. lower) than those here in the US. Sometimes people make investments overseas to cut their taxes. Sometimes they make overseas investments because they see a good opportunity to make money.

    Is the connection between Vladimir Putin and Wilbur Ross so strong that Ross would act against the interests of the United States in his role aw commerce secretary?

    I doubt it. Ross' personal financial stake in this shipping company is relatively minor, compared to his overall wealth. And the portion of the shipping company owned by the US investment firm is fairly significant.

    Policies and decisions made by any Cabinet member or other administrative or executive branch employee need to be monitored by both a strong, independent and free press, as well as public and government ethics agencies. Whether or not Wilbur Ross has a couple of investments that coincide with the interests of unpalatable characters is, in the big scheme of things, irrelevant. I probably have a couple of investments that would meet that standard. And I utterly loathe Putin.
     
  14. Huntn macrumors demi-god

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    #14
    Hey Trump was supposed to drain the swamp, not stock it... :oops::mad:
     
  15. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

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    Trump and company are on track to make the Nixon administration look good in comparison. :eek:
     
  16. LizKat macrumors 603

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    #16
    Yeah and maybe there was a time I owned some Valero... But you and I are not the Treasury Secretary.

    Who the heck knows who's been drawn into what at this point. The Russians do play a long game and are pretty good at letting avarice (for whatever: information or money? They're interchangeable in global finance) play its natural role.

    It's clear that Ross sold the bulk of something under a hundred holdings he had, but that he hung onto 11 of them -- some of them not publicy traded-- and among the eleven was the Russian connected one. It hasn't nosedived but hasn't done that well either so why hang onto it? He also hung onto an outfit that owns a couple dozen medium range oil tankers, into which concern China invested a chunk of money in 2011. Ross has supposedly recused himself from "transoceanic shipping matters" but not necessarily from matters related to fossil-fuel based energy concerns, which still permeate global finance.

    If not Ross himself, then someone else may have lain down on pursuit of a conflict of interest issue here. Why? Meanwhile Ross sings that same old same old song these guys in Trump's admin all sing when they're confronted on paperwork glitches or inconvenient revelations of unseemly associations etc.

    They all "didn't know" or "didn't realize" or "didn't recall"... or lol Sessions with his "don't recall... at the moment...". It all sounds like great theme material for a jailhouse blues album. The question is whether anyone's willing to underwrite production of that album. The Congress is a reluctant player for sure since they're hardly free of conflicts of interest themselves. The big question is who has underwritten the stage play we're watching as the Trump administration, under duress, slowly reveals more of its backstories.

    http://www.zerohedge.com/news/2017-...eep-11-investments-including-chinese-govt-bac
     
  17. jerwin thread starter macrumors 68020

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    I doubt that Trump was being completely honest when he made those promises.
     
  18. Gutwrench Contributor

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    #18
    Well, there it is. His goose his cooked.
     
  19. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    The difference is that Ross is holding public office, so he is accountable to the people in ways a private citizen isn’t.

    That’s why it’s important who this is.

    (Amazing that a response to finding an alligator in the swamp would be, “And?”)

    :rolleyes:
     
  20. duffman9000 macrumors 68000

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    #20
    Reagan could use Alzheimers as an excuse. He could honestly say he didn't remember Iran/Contra. Trump can only blame KFC.
    --- Post Merged, Nov 8, 2017 ---
    He never said he wouldn't restock it lol.
    Of course he would want to drain the swamp. How else could he install his own stooges?
     
  21. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    Btw, the OP didn’t mention the Forbes magazine article that came out yesterday exposing Ross as a liar, who’s inflated his wealth by two billion dollars for the last 14 years. The magazine is dropping him from their list of 400 Wealthiest, and the article cites numerous people who call him a habitually dishonest man.
     
  22. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #22
    Okay .. why?
    I still am not seeing it.

    I'm uber-rich. I use legal ways to protect my money and what I have to pay in taxes and other fees.
    I'm uber-rich. I am now going to become a political figure.


    Why did the rules suddenly change just because I went political? How does this affect my new job? It doesn't.

    These details provided are enlightening. I'm not seeing why this has such a supposed drastic potentially illegal affect for a politician.
     
  23. jerwin thread starter macrumors 68020

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    The holders of public office, are ethically obliged to exercise the powers of that office in the public interest, and not for private financial gain.

    Pretend, for instance, that I owned stock in a Ukrainian rocket engine company.
    Now, suppose, for instance that this rocket engine company supplied technical expertise to the North Korean ICBM programme.

    And suppose that I had the power to impose sanctions on this company. Doing the right thing would cost me a lot of money.
     
  24. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    It wasn't just that Ross is rich, its that he was vice-chairman of the Bank Of Cyprus a place known for money laundering by Russian Oligarchs. So anyone coming out of there who dealt with Russian Oligarchs must be looked at with extra scrutiny.
     
  25. Rhonindk macrumors 68040

    Rhonindk

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    #25
    Looked at I agree. Automatically condemned or "found guilty of something", no.

    One aspect that will need to be addressed eventually, as we continue to evolve into a global economy, we are either going to have politicians with holdings / investments / etc... in many countries, some at odds with ours, or we will end up with politicians who are the cheapest and least effective. Imagine worse than we have today. Ugh. :confused:o_O
     

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