Parent Wants Birth Certificate To Not List Gender

Mac'nCheese

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Feb 9, 2010
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This parent said doctors made assumptions about their gender based on their genitalia when they were born and they were wrong. They want their baby to grow up and decide it's own gender. (Pronoun usages are taken from article )


I don't know about this. Seems like being a kid who is told that they have no gender until they decide what it is would be weirder than a kid growing up and figuring out that they aren't the gender they were born with.

"A parent in Canada is fighting a law that says a child’s gender must be stated on their birth certificate, in order to keep their baby "genderless."

Kori Doty, who does not identify as male or female, wants their eight-month-old baby Searyl Atli to be able to choose their gender, but Canadian law states the baby will not be given a birth certificate without specifying its sex."

https://www.google.com/amp/www.newsweek.com/no-gender-canadian-parent-wants-first-birth-certificate-without-male-or-female-631466?amp=1
 

citizenzen

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Mar 22, 2010
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Haven't read the story. But are the parents "telling" the kid it has no gender, and to figure it out for themselves, or are they just hoping through the behavior of the child to let the child determine its gender, instead of trying to make it conform to what's written on a birth certificate?

The first would be irrational. The second seems to me to be a reasonable thing to do.
 
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FrankieTDouglas

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Mar 10, 2005
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I just wish the talking points were consistent. For many years in the past by those in the social sciences, the definition of "gender" was separated from "sex." Gender was identity, while sex was biology. Someone is biologically male, while identifying as female. Or etc. It's pointless to push that narrative for years and years, and now conflate them back to being interchangeable except using the newer gender definition for both.

I can get on board with someone wanting to subjectively identify as whatever. But there also has to be a foundation in objectivity. A birth certificate is an objective document. If someone wants to say a person isn't what science and objectivity declares (their sex, eye color, hair color, height, weight, skin tone, parents, whatever), then add a second category.
 
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rjohnstone

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Male/Female designation (sex) is determined in the chromosomes. That is a proven scientific fact.
A person's "sex" is not subjective. XX or XY chromosomes are black and white.

What one chooses to "identify" as later in life is a belief and nothing more.
Believe what you want about yourself, but imposing this on an infant is ****ing insanity.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
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I just wish the talking points were consistent. For many years in the past by those in the social sciences, the definition of "gender" was separated from "sex." Gender was identity, while sex was biology. Someone is biologically male, while identifying as female. Or etc. It's pointless to push that narrative for years and years, and now conflate them back to being interchangeable except using the newer gender definition for both.

I can get on board with someone wanting to subjectively identify as whatever. But there also has to be a foundation in objectivity. A birth certificate is an objective document. If someone wants to say a person isn't what science and objectivity declares (their sex, eye color, hair color, height, weight, skin tone, parents, whatever), then add a second category.
Why does there have to be a foundation in objectivity when it comes to the sex of a child?

Does it actually serve a purpose? Or are you merely trying to maintain a traditional convention?
 

Eraserhead

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Nov 3, 2005
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Male/Female designation (sex) is determined in the chromosomes. That is a proven scientific fact.
A person's "sex" is not subjective. XX or XY chromosomes are black and white.

What one chooses to "identify" as later in life is a belief and nothing more.
Believe what you want about yourself, but imposing this on an infant is ****ing insanity.
What about if you are XXY? Or X? Or otherwise not XX or XY?
 

0007776

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Why does there have to be a foundation in objectivity when it comes to the sex of a child?

Does it actually serve a purpose? Or are you merely trying to maintain a traditional convention?
How is this even a question? The most basic science will tell you objectively that with a few exceptions in the case of birth defects where a baby gets an extra chromosome babies are born either male or female. This is like saying that the baby should be allowed to choose their eye color or skin color, gender is a basic trait that doesn't change.
 

Eraserhead

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How is this even a question? The most basic science will tell you objectively that with a few exceptions in the case of birth defects where a baby gets an extra chromosome babies are born either male or female. This is like saying that the baby should be allowed to choose their eye color or skin color, gender is a basic trait that doesn't change.
1 in 600 births isn't that small a group - https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Intersex#Population_figures
 

576316

macrumors 601
May 19, 2011
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This is just extremism. There are ways to not 'push' a specific gender on your child in far more subtle, sane ways. One such way would be to not dress your boy in blue all the time, or pink for a girl. Don't try to sway which toys they'd like to buy. Let them make their own decisions, just don't enforce stereotypical behaviour - but don't actively block it.

I hope what I'm trying to say is clear and sounds sane.
 

Eraserhead

macrumors G4
Nov 3, 2005
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This is just extremism. There are ways to not 'push' a specific gender on your child in far more subtle, sane ways. One such way would be to not dress your boy in blue all the time, or pink for a girl. Don't try to sway which toys they'd like to buy. Let them make their own decisions, just don't enforce stereotypical behaviour - but don't actively block it.

I hope what I'm trying to say is clear and sounds sane.
Agreed if the child isn't intersex :)
 
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Septembersrain

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Dec 14, 2013
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For health reasons, it needs to be listed. Even if the child changes genders later, they will still be susceptible to cancer from their original gender.

Also if there is a mix up, a child gets taken, etc they need to know the gender.

Edit: Perhaps listing if there is an anomaly would be beneficial too.
 

unlinked

macrumors 6502a
Jul 12, 2010
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I just wish the talking points were consistent. For many years in the past by those in the social sciences, the definition of "gender" was separated from "sex." Gender was identity, while sex was biology. Someone is biologically male, while identifying as female. Or etc. It's pointless to push that narrative for years and years, and now conflate them back to being interchangeable except using the newer gender definition for both.
My favourite part was how they decided toilets were segregated by gender not sex.
 

576316

macrumors 601
May 19, 2011
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Agreed if the child isn't intersex :)
Can't see how it makes a difference. You should still allow the child to make their own choices whilst not forcing or blocking stereotypical behaviour, for either of the sexes.
 

0007776

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How many kids sit around reading their own birth certificate for developmental guidance?
They might have to if they have neglectful parents who want their kids to discover everything on heir own instead of being taught. I don't think this mom is going to give her kid any kind of guidance.
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Doesn't identify as man or women? I'm sorry, but you only have those two choices. There's no inbetween or other.
And there isn't really any choice in it either since it is determined by biology.