Paul Ryan tells illegal immigrant he doesn't want to deport her

oneMadRssn

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Let me get this straight. Legal status aside, we the tax-payers paid for this woman's public school education and supported her I'm sure in many other ways as she grew up into what appears to be a productive and contributing (and most likely tax-paying) member of our good society. And now some people are suggesting to kick her out? That's crazy!

That's like building a house just to knock it down. We made an investment, willingly or not, and now that the investment is finally paying off you want to throw it away?

The US needs immigrants like her! Every economist that has ever studied immigration with evidence-based data to back it up has found that when productive immigrants move in, everyone in the country does better.

I am mad she got to skip the line, but I recognize it's not entire her fault. So punish her fairly - make her do 500 hours of community service over the next 10 years or something (which is about 500 hours more than 99% of naturally born Americans do) but let her stay, give her a SSN number, and make it as easy as possible for her to pay taxes.
 

MadeTheSwitch

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She can take her child with her or surrender it to child services.
So you've already paid to educate both her and her daughter, you want to throw the mother out and put the child into government services where you will have to pay even more for the care of that child? That makes no sense. And don't say something like "fine...deport the child too" because that would be unconstitutional. If she was born here, she's an American citizen. A little tough to make the case that an American citizen should be deported to a country they never lived.

But hey, if you are going to try that route than I will try getting Trump deported to Germany. Good luck to us both. :D
 
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Tomorrow

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What about people that have a valid work visa?
They're here legally.

Lol her parents brought her over when she was a minor? Why the **** are you punishing her? You guys are so tough!
"Punishing"? No, it's out of fairness.

There are thousands (or even millions) of people who come to this country legally, either with the intent to become citizens or not. They filled out their paperwork. They paid whatever fees were required. They waited their turn.

Now someone who skipped the line, who didn't pay their dues, who cheated the system (intentionally or otherwise) gets to stay. Do you not see how that sends the message to any other would-be immigrant that there's no need to follow the rules? Do you not see how that's punishing (to use your words) the people who are actually trying to play by the rules?
 

Septembersrain

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They're here legally.



"Punishing"? No, it's out of fairness.

There are thousands (or even millions) of people who come to this country legally, either with the intent to become citizens or not. They filled out their paperwork. They paid whatever fees were required. They waited their turn.

Now someone who skipped the line, who didn't pay their dues, who cheated the system (intentionally or otherwise) gets to stay. Do you not see how that sends the message to any other would-be immigrant that there's no need to follow the rules? Do you not see how that's punishing (to use your words) the people who are actually trying to play by the rules?
That is a good point. If we can't uphold our own laws, then why should immigrants feel compelled to follow them?

I do think in certain cases like young children brought over, while they're here, they still need to do the proper paperwork and pay any fees. Sending them back when they've grown up here and have no where to go back to is a bit harsh perhaps.
 

BoxerGT2.5

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So you've already paid to educate both her and her daughter, you want to throw the mother out and put the child into government services where you will have to pay even more for the care of that child? That makes no sense. And don't say something like "fine...deport the child too" because that would be unconstitutional. If she was born here, she's an American citizen. A little tough to make the case that an American citizen should be deported to a country they never lived.

But hey, if you are going to try that route than I will try getting Trump deported to Germany. Good luck to us both. :D
The issue is what do we do from this point forward? I don't think anyone thinks we can deport 20 million people any more than we can get 300 million guns off the street. How do we kill the incentives for anyone and everyone to just come walking in? I'm not saying we turn in to Turkey, but at some point in time don't we have to start enforcing our laws? I know it makes the faint of heart squirm, but why have the laws to begin with if everyone wants to ignore them (because they might be "mean" as some would say) We mine as well just give up our sovereignty. We have to make coming here legally more attractive than illegally.
 
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yaxomoxay

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The issue is what do we do from this point forward? I don't think anyone thinks we can deport 20 million people any more than we can get 300 million guns off the street. How do we kill the incentives for anyone and everyone to just come walking in? I'm not saying we turn in to Turkey, but at some point in time don't we have to start enforcing our laws? I know it makes the faint of heart squirm, but why have the laws to begin with if everyone wants to ignore them (because they might be "mean" as some would say) We mine as well just give up our sovereignty. We have to make coming here legally more attractive than illegally.
If Trump really do succeeds, and makes America great again, and fixes its economy, then there is no way to kill the incentive. America - and its strengths - will be an incentive in itself.
Therefore the only way to reduce illegal immigration is to increase the opportunity cost. Make crossing the borders so bad and expensive that it is not worth the time and money. Make so difficult living here that it becomes borderline impossible, etc.
But if someone is brought here as a kid, stayed quiet, no crimes in the past, went to school maybe with good grades, and is hard working... well. No need to waste our already spent money by sending him/her back. Just make it hard enough that at the first felony or request for welfare the "bonus time" ends.
[doublepost=1484335955][/doublepost]
They're here legally.



"Punishing"? No, it's out of fairness.

There are thousands (or even millions) of people who come to this country legally, either with the intent to become citizens or not. They filled out their paperwork. They paid whatever fees were required. They waited their turn.

Now someone who skipped the line, who didn't pay their dues, who cheated the system (intentionally or otherwise) gets to stay. Do you not see how that sends the message to any other would-be immigrant that there's no need to follow the rules? Do you not see how that's punishing (to use your words) the people who are actually trying to play by the rules?
I wouldn't see anything wrong in keeping someone like her here, as I explained above.
 

BoxerGT2.5

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If Trump really do succeeds, and makes America great again, and fixes its economy, then there is no way to kill the incentive. America - and its strengths - will be an incentive in itself.
Therefore the only way to reduce illegal immigration is to increase the opportunity cost. Make crossing the borders so bad and expensive that it is not worth the time and money. Make so difficult living here that it becomes borderline impossible, etc.
But if someone is brought here as a kid, stayed quiet, no crimes in the past, went to school maybe with good grades, and is hard working... well. No need to waste our already spent money by sending him/her back. Just make it hard enough that at the first felony or request for welfare the "bonus time" ends.
[doublepost=1484335955][/doublepost]

I wouldn't see anything wrong in keeping someone like her here, as I explained above.

I get America in it's own right is an incentive, but at some point we have to not make it a policy that if so and so staying in the shadows long enough and keeps their nose clean we'll just keep looking away.
 
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MadeTheSwitch

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We have to make coming here legally more attractive than illegally
Then the time that it takes to come here legally needs to be substantially reduced. If you are faced with a choice between a better life for your family that is free (or at least cheaper) and immediate vs. one that is expensive and years down the road, which would you pick? I think most people would pick the option that helps their children right now, not some theoretical time in the future.
 

R.Perez

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As has been said time and time again, if you go after the employers of undocumented workers, the problem will solve itself. You don't have to target already vulnerable people or deport people who spent most of their life in the US. Give them a pathway to cititzenship and be done with it. I'm also going to split sharply with Yaxomoxay (big surprise) and say that giving someone permanent residence status, which means they are legal residents and pay taxes, means you then can't deny them welfare if they eventually fall in hard times. That's completely unfair.
 

BoxerGT2.5

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Then the time that it takes to come here legally needs to be substantially reduced. If you are faced with a choice between a better life for your family that is free (or at least cheaper) and immediate vs. one that is expensive and years down the road, which would you pick? I think most people would pick the option that helps their children right now, not some theoretical time in the future.
Streamline the process, that's fine. So long as we are able to dot all the "I's" and cross all the "T's" so that we know who it is we're letting in.
[doublepost=1484336962][/doublepost]
As has been said time and time again, if you go after the employers of undocumented workers, the problem will solve itself. You don't have to target already vulnerable people or deport people who spent most of their life in the US. Give them a pathway to cititzenship and be done with it. I'm also going to split sharply with Yaxomoxay (big surprise) and say that giving someone permanent residence status, which means they are legal residents and pay taxes, means you then can't deny them welfare if they eventually fall in hard times. That's completely unfair.
We should deny welfare (all forms) for the first 8yrs of them becoming legal residents.
 

Chew Toy McCoy

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Put her in a new reality “this is your life” contest show pitted against a lifelong American born welfare recipient and let the audience decide who has been a bigger contributor or leach to the US. I’m sure they both had challenges. Who put out the most effort to overcome those.
 
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yaxomoxay

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As has been said time and time again, if you go after the employers of undocumented workers, the problem will solve itself. You don't have to target already vulnerable people or deport people who spent most of their life in the US. Give them a pathway to cititzenship and be done with it. I'm also going to split sharply with Yaxomoxay (big surprise) and say that giving someone permanent residence status, which means they are legal residents and pay taxes, means you then can't deny them welfare if they eventually fall in hard times. That's completely unfair.
Lol, we always disagree. I bet that in real life we would be BFF's. ;)
I am against citizenship, as for welfare I mean the full range of it. Permanent residents are already very limited in what they can get (plus it's a mess because it depends on how you applied, who's the sponsor, how many hours have you worked etc.). Stuff like SNAP etc. is all fair game to me.
 

DUCKofD3ATH

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http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/12/politics/paul-ryan-town-hall-undocumented-immigrant/index.html

House Speaker Paul Ryan was asked point-blank Thursday by a woman whose parents brought her to the US as an illegal* immigrant at age 11, and who has remained in the country for 21 years since: "Do you think that I should be deported
------------------
*My word because you are no longer "undocumented" if you go on cable TV and admit you are here illegally.

He said no. However I say YES!
She has been here for 21 year. She has had plenty of time(~14 years as a legal adult!) to apply for citizenship. She decided to have a child knowing full well she could put that child's well being at risk if she was deported.

Unless she has a REALLY good reason I say she should be on the next bus out of here. She can take her child with her or surrender it to child services. Being that her child was born in the U.S. if the parent decides to take the child back to the country of origin as soon as that child turns 18 they are welcome to return as a full citizen.
What's surprising about Ryan not wanting to deport her? Ryan is yet another Republican who's talked tough on immigration but probably would have joined in on the amnesty if Hillary had won. Trump's the only reason we'll get immigration reform.
 

A.Goldberg

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Let me get this straight. Legal status aside, we the tax-payers paid for this woman's public school education and supported her I'm sure in many other ways as she grew up into what appears to be a productive and contributing (and most likely tax-paying) member of our good society. And now some people are suggesting to kick her out? That's crazy!
This is my thought exactly. We have invested in her for years and therefore there why should we throw away the investment? I believe most immigrants went through the trouble of coming to America to make a better life for themselves, not be some intentional, parasitic drain on our society.

I think if you were brought here as a child and have spent more than say... 5 years here you might as well be considered a citizen.

I don't believe in an open boarder of people free to walk into our country and receive our benefits without permission. At the same time, destroying families who have resided and built their in the US for years bring responsible, well behaved, hard working, and well meaning people is wrong.

I think there should be a path to some form of legal status and probably eventually citizenship for illegal immigrants. The time cost and energy of sending back everyone is ridiculous and immoral. But that said I don't think we can afford to let anyone in who wants to be here. We're not living in the Ellis Island Era.

I think one of the most complex issue is what should happen with criminals. If someone murders or attempts to murder someone I think can see that as a valid reason. But what about simple drug possession, petty theft, shop lifting? Some people would probably like to see anyone who sneezed on someone deported. Where do you draw the line? To what degree and amount and in what amount of time is too much. What about juveniles- how does that factor in.
 

Huntn

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http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/12/politics/paul-ryan-town-hall-undocumented-immigrant/index.html

House Speaker Paul Ryan was asked point-blank Thursday by a woman whose parents brought her to the US as an illegal* immigrant at age 11, and who has remained in the country for 21 years since: "Do you think that I should be deported
------------------
*My word because you are no longer "undocumented" if you go on cable TV and admit you are here illegally.

He said no. However I say YES!
She has been here for 21 year. She has had plenty of time(~14 years as a legal adult!) to apply for citizenship. She decided to have a child knowing full well she could put that child's well being at risk if she was deported.

Unless she has a REALLY good reason I say she should be on the next bus out of here. She can take her child with her or surrender it to child services. Being that her child was born in the U.S. if the parent decides to take the child back to the country of origin as soon as that child turns 18 they are welcome to return as a full citizen.
Logic 101- you failed. :) Illegals can't apply for citizenship without exposing themselves to be deported. Correct?
 

macmee

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http://www.cnn.com/2017/01/12/politics/paul-ryan-town-hall-undocumented-immigrant/index.html

House Speaker Paul Ryan was asked point-blank Thursday by a woman whose parents brought her to the US as an illegal* immigrant at age 11, and who has remained in the country for 21 years since: "Do you think that I should be deported
------------------
*My word because you are no longer "undocumented" if you go on cable TV and admit you are here illegally.

He said no. However I say YES!
She has been here for 21 year. She has had plenty of time(~14 years as a legal adult!) to apply for citizenship. She decided to have a child knowing full well she could put that child's well being at risk if she was deported.

Unless she has a REALLY good reason I say she should be on the next bus out of here. She can take her child with her or surrender it to child services. Being that her child was born in the U.S. if the parent decides to take the child back to the country of origin as soon as that child turns 18 they are welcome to return as a full citizen.
What in the f***? You're going to deport someone who's been here for 21 years and was 11 when they got here?

Is there an option here to have you deported instead?
 

lostngone

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What in the f***? You're going to deport someone who's been here for 21 years and was 11 when they got here?

Is there an option here to have you deported instead?
Last time I checked I am not a criminal and I am here legally. They even gave me a passport(crazy right!?!)
[doublepost=1484345099][/doublepost]
Logic 101- you failed. :) Illegals can't apply for citizenship without exposing themselves to be deported. Correct?
Not my problem! If they are truly "undocumented" they can apply for a visa while they are here.
 

Tomorrow

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Logic 101- you failed. :) Illegals can't apply for citizenship without exposing themselves to be deported. Correct?
Your statement is only true if there's actually a risk for them being deported - but as you can see in this thread, there are too many people who are unwilling to do it. They know there's no real risk to being deported, and there's nothing to gain by trying to become legal, since they're already here and they know they're not going anywhere. So why bother going through the proper channels? This is the reward system I would like to see eliminated.
 

macmee

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Last time I checked I am not a criminal and I am here legally. They even gave me a passport(crazy right!?!)
And last time I checked, you are no more culpable for where you were living at the age of 11 as this girl was.

Your opinion is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my entire life.
 

yaxomoxay

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And last time I checked, you are no more culpable for where you were living at the age of 11 as this girl was.

Your opinion is the stupidest thing I have ever heard in my entire life.
Dude chill. It has been a civil conversation so far, don't ruin it.
[doublepost=1484346205][/doublepost]
Not my problem! If they are truly "undocumented" they can apply for a visa while they are here.
Not really, they can't. A visa is mostly used for the point of entry. What is really important is the I-94 form (not to be confused with the custom's form) and the date that the officer at the point of entry stamps on it before physically stapling it to the passport. A portion of the I-94 is also to be returned on exit. (they slightly changed this process lately to make it more 'digital')
 
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macmee

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Dude chill. It has been a civil conversation so far, don't ruin it.
I am chill and I regret nothing. I think OP's opinion of kicking someone out who came here at 11 is the stupidest opinion I have ever heard in my entire life. If he disagrees I assume he has the capacity to call my own opinion stupid and doesn't need you to be his nanny.
 

yaxomoxay

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I am chill and I regret nothing. I think OP's opinion of kicking someone out who came here at 11 is the stupidest opinion I have ever heard in my entire life. If he disagrees I assume he has the capacity to call my own opinion stupid and doesn't need you to be his nanny.
I am not his nanny, I am a nanny of the (so far) civil thread.
 
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