PCI-Express, AGP 8x

MacRumors

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Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
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News.com discusses the recent adoption of AGP 8x on NVidia's nForce2 chipset. But dates this standard and expects PCI Express to overtake it in about 1 1/2 years:

"AGP has kind of worn out," said Peter Glaskowsky, editor in chief of industry newsletter the Microprocessor Report. "AGP 8x will last about a year, maybe a year and a half, then we'll get PC Express graphics cards. PCI Express has way more headroom to grow."

PCI Express is the new name for 3GIO Technology. Apple was reported to be involved with the 3GIO standard.
 

Mr. Anderson

Moderator emeritus
Nov 1, 2001
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VA
Its interesting to see that the performance boost between the system insn't all that much different (no specs, just paraphrasing). But with room to grow, I can't even begin to imagine what the capabilities might be like in 2004....

D
 

shadowfax0

macrumors 6502
May 2, 2002
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This really makes me think about when to buy a new computer...all these new standards and things, alot of different levels to think on rather the just the CPU or RAM...:eek:
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
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Middle Earth
Originally posted by shadowfax0
This really makes me think about when to buy a new computer...all these new standards and things, alot of different levels to think on rather the just the CPU or RAM...:eek:
Just hop in when you're ready there are always plenty of new Technologies coming down the pipe.

You'll notice that the current trend is to replace old Parallel technologies like ATA and now PCI with Serial based Tech that runs faster. For instance

SerialATA will replace Parallell ATA- This means Ribbon Cables go bye bye and nice thin cables about the thickness of a Firewire cable will be used to connect ATA Devices.

PCIExpress will go Serial and support up to 8 Gigabytes of throughput.

Hopefully the Serial nature of the Cards means smaller connectors to the Motherboard as well.

SCSI is going Serial as well.
 

mozez

macrumors member
Sep 18, 2001
88
0
did everyone miss soemthing? this was created by INTEL!!!! read the article, it will be, like everything else, out on pcs and eventually, i guess about 2 years after pcs have it, apple may get it, or get a hack of it. it's just like ddr, standard in a pc, maybe 2 years later, apple still doesn't have "true" ddr. but the major part of all of this is that it is made by and for intel, not apple. hypertranport will also, like everything else, be on a pc first, most people still think firewire was on a mac first, apple called it firewire, but pcs had 1394 ports before apple ever did, it's all the same, apple is just way behind. this will just psuh them even farther and make it harder to catch up.
 

keltorsori

macrumors regular
Jul 24, 2002
173
2
Originally posted by mozez
did everyone miss soemthing? this was created by INTEL!!!! read the article, it will be, like everything else, out on pcs and eventually, i guess about 2 years after pcs have it, apple may get it, or get a hack of it. it's just like ddr, standard in a pc, maybe 2 years later, apple still doesn't have "true" ddr. but the major part of all of this is that it is made by and for intel, not apple. hypertranport will also, like everything else, be on a pc first, most people still think firewire was on a mac first, apple called it firewire, but pcs had 1394 ports before apple ever did, it's all the same, apple is just way behind. this will just psuh them even farther and make it harder to catch up.
And USB is an Intel created technology as well. Andy Grove (CEO of Intel) has publicly said that if it weren't for Apple and the iMac, USB would probably be dead. It was an Apple first (or forced adoption first). Just because something is Intel doesn't mean Apple won't get it, or even implement it before the Wintel world.
The DDR issue has less to do with Apple than Motorola. The current crop of PPC 74XX processors DO NOT support DDR. That's why you get the current DDR hack. When Moto comes out with the 7470's then we'll see true DDR.
 

Telomar

macrumors 6502
Aug 31, 2002
260
36
Originally posted by keltorsori

When Moto comes out with the 7470's then we'll see true DDR.
If by 7470 you are referring to a chip with a DDR MPX bus then I wouldn't count on ever seeing it.
 

iN8

macrumors regular
May 29, 2002
151
0
The Bahamas
Originally posted by mozez
...most people still think firewire was on a mac first, apple called it firewire, but pcs had 1394 ports before apple ever did...
I may be wrong, and I don't think I am, but didn't Apple invent Firewire. It is an Apple technology. Just like USB is Intels technology. I'd like to see your proof of PC's having Firewire ports before Macs. That's bloody rediculous.

N8
 

Arcady

macrumors 6502
May 24, 2002
402
24
Lexington, KY
Originally posted by mozez
most people still think firewire was on a mac first, apple called it firewire, but pcs had 1394 ports before apple ever did
Most people are right. The Blue & White G3 introduced FireWire to the world.
 

Rocketman

macrumors 603
Originally posted by mozez
did everyone miss soemthing? this was created by INTEL!!!! read the article, it will be, like everything else, out on pcs and eventually, i guess about 2 years after pcs have it, apple may get it, or get a hack of it. it's just like ddr, standard in a pc, maybe 2 years later, apple still doesn't have "true" ddr. but the major part of all of this is that it is made by and for intel, not apple. hypertranport will also, like everything else, be on a pc first, most people still think firewire was on a mac first, apple called it firewire, but pcs had 1394 ports before apple ever did, it's all the same, apple is just way behind. this will just psuh them even farther and make it harder to catch up.
I would agree Apple is a late adopter of some specific technologies, even thrir own. But they also release an integrated system of hardware and software that interacts with everything else fairly seamlessly.

That is better than a box of cool parts you have to onstall and retrofit to a crippled PC with no compatible software or compelling applications.

Rocketnam
 

Cappy

macrumors 6502
May 29, 2002
386
2
Originally posted by keltorsori

And USB is an Intel created technology as well. Andy Grove (CEO of Intel) has publicly said that if it weren't for Apple and the iMac, USB would probably be dead. It was an Apple first (or forced adoption first). Just because something is Intel doesn't mean Apple won't get it, or even implement it before the Wintel world.
Some folks like to toss Andy Grove comments around on this but they've never been able to point to a quote. I'd like to see it because frankly I don't believe it. Matter of fact I just entered into Google "andy grove imac usb" and found nothing about Andy making any statement like this. Such a comment would be a big deal on Mac fanatic sites and yet nothing comes up.

Andy has made comments about the innovation that came from the iMac but I've never seen anything quoting him saying that USB would be dead if not for the iMac. Windows 98 was released at about the same time as the iMac and was the Windows OS that developers were waiting for to deliver USB products to the world. Sure, the iMac helped but it was Win98 that pushed USB not the iMac.

As for Andy's alledged comment feel free to provide a url to the quote. Maybe I just didn't search for it correctly but I found nothing and everytime I've challenged someone on it since just after the iMac's intro, they can never remember where they read it or find a url.
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
Originally posted by Arcady


That document is dated 1998. The B&W G3 came out in the first week of January 1998. So you are saying Apple introduced the FireWire PCI card a few days before MWSF? I don't think so...
B&W G3 came out in 99 not 98.........
 

iGav

macrumors G3
Mar 9, 2002
9,025
1
Originally posted by mozez
most people still think firewire was on a mac first, apple called it firewire, but pcs had 1394 ports before apple ever did, it's all the same, apple is just way behind. this will just psuh them even farther and make it harder to catch up.
Jesus....... some people :rolleyes:
 

iN8

macrumors regular
May 29, 2002
151
0
The Bahamas
Originally posted by Arcady


...The B&W G3 came out in the first week of January 1998...
From Low End Mac

G3/300 introduced 1999.01.05 at US$1,599; discontinued 1999.06.
G3/350 introduced 1999.01.05 at US$1,999; discontinued 1999.08.31.
G3/400 introduced 1999.01.05 at US$2,999; discontinued 1999.08.31.
G3/450 introduced 1999.06 at $2,519; discontinued 1999.08.31.

You almost made be doubt myself Arcady, almost.
 

big

macrumors 65816
Feb 20, 2002
1,074
0
>I think PCI-X will be great. Think about it no specific video card slot. Instead I will have 5 full PCI slots on my machine each capable of fully supporting any high end video card.

ummm, most people have PCI now, so let me get this straight....we will go from PCI to AGB back to PCI...hmmmmm

about the B&W with firewire, after I bought mine, I now realize how awesome it is to verify the technology before you buy. I almost bought the beige G3, however, if I had not of waited I would not have firewire & a slew of other realllllllly koo things.

so I agree with shadowfax0 makes me want to wait too....I'd be really PO'd if I couldn't upgrade my G4 when something REEEAALLLLYYYY koo came out etc etc....
 

iN8

macrumors regular
May 29, 2002
151
0
The Bahamas
I guess it would be cool to actually have two of the same graphics card performing equally on the same bus, instead of having one AGP and one PCI.

Two cards with dual monitor support, four monitors, thats frikkin' cool!:cool:
 

big

macrumors 65816
Feb 20, 2002
1,074
0
apple has always had this capability, until recently, anways, you can still have two PCI cards running 4 monitors (instead of going through AGP)
 

nuckinfutz

macrumors 603
Jul 3, 2002
5,504
314
Middle Earth
Originally posted by mozez
did everyone miss soemthing? this was created by INTEL!!!! read the article, it will be, like everything else, out on pcs and eventually, i guess about 2 years after pcs have it, apple may get it, or get a hack of it. it's just like ddr, standard in a pc, maybe 2 years later, apple still doesn't have "true" ddr. but the major part of all of this is that it is made by and for intel, not apple. hypertranport will also, like everything else, be on a pc first, most people still think firewire was on a mac first, apple called it firewire, but pcs had 1394 ports before apple ever did, it's all the same, apple is just way behind. this will just psuh them even farther and make it harder to catch up.
Mozez I'm sorry man but this post is flat out horrible. You are wrong in so many ways it's unbelievable. Please get better...and quickly spreading misinformation is not cool.



That's why you get the current DDR hack. When Moto comes out with the 7470's then we'll see true DDR.
Please guys stop referring to it a "true" DDR. The memory in the MDD Powermacs IS DDR. The FSB doesn't support DDR and that's your problem. However remember that anthing items that suppor DMA have direct access to the full DDR Bandwidth without crossing the FSB. Let's get more technically proficient guys for the sake of newbies who read this stuff and get the wrong idea about what's "true" or not.
 

iN8

macrumors regular
May 29, 2002
151
0
The Bahamas
Originally posted by boom-boom
Looking at the Apple specs page:

http://www.info.apple.com/support/applespec.html

the first iMac with Firewaire was the iMac DV 1999 09
but the first mac with Firewire as far as I can see is the G3 B+W tower in 1999 01!
You are correct. The first Mac with built-in firewire was the B&W G3 (Yosemite). Nobody was disputing that. I was just stating that Firewire was available before that as a Apple Firewire Kit PCI upgrade card for the Beige G3. Firewire was only performing at 100 or 200 Mbits at the time and there were not many firewire products available.

The only reason I mentioned that was to inform mozez of how far back Apple had been using firewire.

Cheers.:)
 

MacBandit

macrumors 604
Originally posted by big
>I think PCI-X will be great. Think about it no specific video card slot. Instead I will have 5 full PCI slots on my machine each capable of fully supporting any high end video card.

ummm, most people have PCI now, so let me get this straight....we will go from PCI to AGB back to PCI...hmmmmm

What I was trying to say is I have 4 slow PCI slots now and one AGP slot which can handle a high end graphics card. Replace all 5 of those slots with with PCI-X and you have 5PCI slots that will take anything from a USB card to a high end graphics card. Very cool.