Pegida

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Meister, Dec 17, 2014.

  1. Meister Suspended

    Meister

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    #1
    http://www.breitbart.com/Big-Peace/...ment-to-Draw-Thousands-in-Rally-Against-Jihad

    I am kind of sad to see people mix serious issues with xenophobia.
     
  2. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #2
    If they are anything like the PVV here in the Netherlands. The average supporter will have minimal education, and be semi skilled, these are the people who see all immigration as a direct threat on them on jobs front. The fact that the major parties are against them only plays into their hands, say they say “See the Berlin Elite don’t care about YOU”.
    They also score very well by being anti "EU"

    Once you strip away their xenophobia idea’s, the people begin to see there is not really any other policy.

    These parties always do very well while they are in opposition, it’s easy to say what is wrong with a policy. I can do that as well, but when you have to put it right, and be responsible for that policy, well life becomes more interesting.

    Most of these parties shun the cold light of day, hate media scrutiny, only call interviews/TV when they want to.
    But if like the PVV you do enter government, well then you are responsible for the policy, you are also followed by TV 24 hours a day, interviews cannot be denied. (This is when all the dark secrets of your people come out, prison records, tax evasion, sex crimes etc.)
    Your own supporters demand that you carry out your election promises, but when in Government that’s alway more difficult to do.

    Sooner rather than later your own supporters will start to call you an “One of the Berlin Elite”
     
  3. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #3
    I am not familiar with the PVV, but that pegida thing is a big topic here atm.

    The Pegida supporters mention a variety of real issues, but then they demonstrate against Islam in ****ing Dresden! of all places. It's like they are protesting the boogeyman. It leaves a bad nazi taste. The sad thing is, that if you strip away the xenophobe part, they are actual touching some real issues, that are deliberately caused by the current german government. They give people who care about these issues a bad name.
     
  4. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #4
    I think any right wing party has more significance in Germany than other countries. This might be unfair, but the words Nazi/Germany sells newspapers.

    These parties are very good a co-opting genuine issues, the big problem is they normally give very simplistic answers to very complex problems, sounds to go for "Sound Bites".

    Given the very real problems with the EURO, I'm still very surprised that the main stream parties across Europe have retained power.

    PVV is more of a Populist party than an out an out racist party.
     
  5. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #5
    Sounds a lot like UKIP.
     
  6. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #6
    Islam is one of the most destructive and backwards religions on the face of the earth, i can't really say if id be for the islamification of anything.
     
  7. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

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    #7
    My neighborhood in the burbs of a large German city is almost exclusively immigrants there is one German name in the three buildings that the rental company manages. The rest are mostly Syrian and Turkish and there is no Islamification in my little hood. I'm going to assume it's because they all have jobs and families i.e. they're content.
     
  8. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #8
    The Pegida movement is not just about islam.
    Some things are very wrong in germany and the solutions would be very obvious. People of different skin colors and religions are protesting together here. The fact that this is portrayed as a racist event is suspicious.

    Imo immigration is a non-issue and politizised by individuals with a more than questionable background. There many other topics that the pegida movement is about.
     
  9. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #9
    And in the UK, we've had the BNP, UKIP, EDL, EVF, Britiain First, all supported by poorly educated individuals (not their fault), blaming lack of work etc on immigration, purely on the basis that facist groups have fed them misconceived ideology.

    No the elite doesn't work for the common interest, but tackle the elite, not the immigrants, after all as far as the UK is concerned we gave up the right to properly govern who comes here when our ancestors colonised half the world. I don't understand why people feel the need to be ashamed of the living remnants of our colonialist past...... its pathetic.
     
  10. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #10
    What a coincidence, that basically sums up your average right wing extremist in America too!
     
  11. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #11
    Its not about islam, its about generalised immigration :rolleyes:
     
  12. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #12
    I literally just wittnessed a woman on the subway randomly unleashing on people who looked "non german" for "taking all the money".
    While the xenophobes in the US might look like the germans on the surface, things are different here. There is always violent naziism brewing beneath and I am getting a bad feeling about this whole pegida thing.
     
  13. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

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    #13
    I'm just curious, which part of Germany do you live in? Because I heard this kind of stuff is more common in eastern Germany. Is there any truth to that?
     
  14. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #14
    Although I don't know much about it, I would lean towards this although radical Islamist movements in the Middle East don't help by reinforcing the negative perception.
     
  15. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #15
    I can't answer this, but I do know that when I've travelled to eastern europe there were more facist slogans and symbols around than in western europe (im talking about europe as a continent, not the collection of countries).

    Most notably places like Serbia, which are poorer than many of its direct neighbours. The same could be said with berlin, the contrast between east and west was very noticeable with certiainly more police and slogs sprawled around, so I can imagine that being the trend.

    Meister will be able to tell you.

    From a british point of view there is a direct correlation between areas that have less immigration being generally more supportive of anti immigration/right wing groups.
     
  16. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    It can happen here as well, I have never seen it personally, but there are enough reports in the media. Most of the attacks are verbal, but even this is a worrying sign.

    Since the crisis with the banks and the Euro it's gotten a lot worse. I really do not think that the German's have cornered the market on xenophobia or racist movements, but because of history, as soon as the words Nazi/Germany alarm bells ring.
     
  17. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #17
    From a brits point of view, there's generalised anti islam sentiment, but actually a vast majority of immigration scaremongering resides around poles, latvians, romanians etc.

    Basically you can almost follow the trends decade by decade here.
    50, 60's it was anti afro carribean
    70's and 80's it was anti indian
    90's and noughties its been anti eastern european

    Because of the nature of the war in iraq and afghanistan (i.e.d's etc) and things like 9/11, 7/7 and the lee rigby murders anti islam sentiment has stayed with us through the noughties too unfrotunately.

    ----------

    I think a lot of people don't actually understand what facism is, and that nazism was an ideology within facism, and just shoot "nazi" around as the most offensive term they can think off..... its a bit like gamergate and people saying "I'm going to rape you" etc....... they're only saying it because they can't verbalise what they want to say, so just shoot for the easiest offensive option.
     
  18. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #18
    I also get the idea that many American really don't understand the word socialist/socialism.:cool:
     
  19. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #19
    Regarding Middle East Islamists, what sticks is not they are fighting for their freedom because their targets are frequently their own class who are not as radicalized as they are and consequently their movement appears intent on placing their society under their xenophobic and intolerant thumbs. There is no room for debate. It's our way or you can go meet Allah. Harkining back to the 10th Century, that's no way to run a modern society. Unfortunately, they put themselves in the position of meeting Allah prematurely.
     
  20. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #20
    That today was in munich, but I do not live there. I experience "non-germans" and "germans" verbally attacking each other quite often, even in the west. I see myself as a world citizen and I find these animosities quite ridicolous. Noone could tell the "real" germans form the immigrants anyway, except they for themselves. :rolleyes:
    I have not been to east germany for almost ten years, because I hate the place. It's full with weirdos and nazis.

    ----------

    Of course they haven't cornered the market, but xenophobia and germans is always a lethal mix.
     
  21. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #21
    It isn't a German thing, nor is it Nazism specifically. Bad times and fearful minds tend to breed extremist responses. There isn't anything different or special about Germany that makes it more likely to fall towards fascism. We're all pretty susceptible in the right circumstances.

    Though you all do have the dubious honor of serving as the prime example of the worst case scenario.
     
  22. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #22
    I don't think the whole gravity of the situation is visible from the breitbart article.
    This PEGIDA thing is starting to become a massive movement and it is not just focused on immigration. Most people here do not go to the elections anymore and are forced to pay fees and taxes to finance the lives of the people who positioned themselves on top of the system. Also radical Islam is indeed becoming a problem as of late (not in Dresden though).

    Here a better article from the WP:
    http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs...ng-rise-of-an-anti-islam-movement-in-germany/
    [​IMG]
     
  23. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #23
    I guess we better stop whinging about immigration.
     
  24. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #24
    It's a well known fact that Germany takes more than it's fair share of the refugee and immigrants in the EU.

    Germany history aside, the German people are reacting like most other countries do when faced with mass immigration.

    Another thing that always happens immigrants tend to group in one or two cities, this always makes the numbers look bigger than they really are.

    But I really posted about your statement that people are forced to pay fees and taxes to support the ruling elite.

    I really do hate to break it to you but that is how the western world works.

    You are free, to do anything, go anywhere, be anyone, so long as you can PAY for it.
     
  25. Meister thread starter Suspended

    Meister

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    #25
    I am aware of that, but you have to start to do something about it at some point. The german elite is especially impudent about living of of everyone else. They just write themselves laws to get payed directly by taxes.
     

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