Pennsylvania Voter ID Law Struck Down

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Jan 17, 2014.

  1. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    Jul 11, 2003
    #1
    Nice to see these voter suppression laws getting struck down.


    http://www.nytimes.com/2014/01/18/us/politics/pennsylvania-voter-id-law-struck-down.html?_r=0


    ALso nice to see Congress working on this.

    Lawmakers Roll Out Voting Rights Act Fix



    http://www.npr.org/blogs/itsallpoli...3258/lawmakers-roll-out-voting-rights-act-fix
     
  2. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #2
    As far as photo ID if they are pushed, they should be phased in with current voter registration cards at the State's tax payer expense.
     
  3. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    #3
    It's good that this got shot down, I know a good number of people in PA, and this has been a hot debate topic in the state for awhile now.

    Keep in mind, there is also a movement in PA that is trying to change the system so that even if Democrats win the majority, the state will always go Red in an election, its a strange form of Gerrymandering
     
  4. Hugh macrumors 6502a

    Hugh

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    #4
    Who is this movement? I know the Mandering screwed up us here in Erie. :mad:

    Hugh
     
  5. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #5
    I cannot understand this fear on the left of requiring identification to prove you are legally allowed to vote in your district. Why is this considered voter suppression? You are afraid of suppressing whom exactly? The US must be the only country left in the world where you can vote early and often without any risk of discovery.

    I live in Malaysia at the moment and I cannot vote here. Why? Because only citizens are allowed to vote, and proof of citizenship is required. It's not suppression, it's common sense.
     
  6. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #6
    nice post.

    I would say the voter I.D should be free, but you SHOULD have to present it in order to vote.
     
  7. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #7
    Malaysia ... where they execute you for just possessing a firearm.

    It's not suppression, it's just common sense.
     
  8. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #8

    Why can't you stick to the topic under discussion? No real answers? Of course not. Attacking the poster for any other reason is your one trick - practiced by everyone on the left.

    Explain in detail how requiring proof of citizenship is voter suppression.

    Why do you want to allow people to vote any place, any time, multiple times, legal citizen or not? The only way you guys can stay in power?

    ----------


    Oh and I know it's hard for you to grasp this, but it's not illegal to own a firearm in Malaysia. They have different laws here than in the US, but ownership only requires permits - just like the left in the US cries put for all the time.

    Even for foreigners, like me, gun ownership is allowed. I've been to the shooting range here many times, even firing a fully automatic AK 47.
     
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #9
    My mistake.

    I thought the discussion was, U.S. constitutional rights and how'd they'd be applied by the Malaysian system of laws.
     
  10. thewitt macrumors 68020

    thewitt

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    #10

    Seriously?

    The question on the table.

    Again, should you desire to address it.

    How is requiring registration and proof of legal standing in order to vote any form of suppression for legal voters in the US.

    Can't answer? I didn't think so. There are no sane answers to this question from the left. Never have been in any of the dialog on the subject.

    An apparent desire to allow illegal votes and voters on the part of the left in the US drives this issue. It's never been anything else. Ever.

    Voter fraud exists everywhere. As responsible citizens we should be working to end it, not supporting policy that encourages it.
     
  11. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #11
    as long as the I.D is FREE, there should be no problem.
    charging for the I.D is about the same as having to PAY of a Constitutional right, IMHO anyways.
     
  12. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    #12
    This is the issue.

    Drivers licenses and State IDs are not free, and for those on fixed income or very low incomes, in areas with no public transit. Just getting to a state office can be a huge problem for lots of people, such as the poor and seniors or disabled people who cannot transport themselves.

    If you want voter ID, then you must bring the ID to those people at no charge.
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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  14. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #14
    I can tell when you didn't bother to read the article.


    The issue isn't one of voter ID. It seems to have been challenged due to being written and implemented in a legally unsound manner. There's probably more to it, but at least I bothered to read the damn thing:p.
     
  15. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    #15
    Looks like "never" already occurred over a year ago.

    The following are quotes from the September 2012 PRSI thread, I dont agree that requiring I.D. is voter suppression.? ...

     
  16. LethalWolfe macrumors G3

    LethalWolfe

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    #16
    And the type of voter fraud that exists isn't prevented nor deterred by voter ID laws like these. For example, the voter ID law that passed in Indiana puts up provisions to help prevent a crime that has never been prosecuted in the 198 year history of that state! Nothing says, "I want a small government" like passing laws to prevent crimes that don't exist.

    Historically, across the nation voter, impersonation at the polls is exceedingly rare because it's very high risk for very little reward. There are much more effective ways to commit fraud during elections but, of course, these voter ID laws don't address those situations.
     
  17. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

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    #17
    You obviously didn't read the article nor its challenge. But seeing how you've shot first before asking questions many a time in this forum, that can be expected.

    Either way, let's look at Voter ID, okay?

    Seeing that we know your stance on this, and that you "can't understand the fear on the left", explain the following:

    Dateline: March 2012, Aurora Ohio. A WW2 is ineligible to vote in the Ohio Primary, because his VA identification card is rejected at the polls, due to Ohio's Voter ID laws. Not only is this guy a citizen of the country, he put his life on the line for us nearly 70 years ago, yet his ID wasn't good enough.

    Read for yourself: http://www.cleveland.com/politics/index.ssf/2012/03/portage_county_veteran_86_turn.html

    Dateline, November, 2013, Milwaukee, Wisconsin. Genevieve Winslow married her husband, Alex Winslow at the age of 20. Her husband fought in the Battle of the Bulge. a year later, in 1948, she voted, and had voted in every election since.

    I'll let its article continue the rest:
    Doubt me? Read for yourself: http://www.csmonitor.com/USA/Politi...eneration-Critics-assail-voter-ID-laws.-video

    Aren't you so bloody glad that this perceived "fear" you think the left has doesn't exist? Or do you love treating your elders and veterans like they are not citizens of this country; the same country they fought for so you could be born?

    Congratulations; you, and voter ID laws have done them so well to make them proud. :rolleyes:

    BL.

    P.S.: don't bother replying to the thread, as backpedaling will make you lose face, and keeping your current stance will show how asinine your stance is, as well as how disrespectful it is to our elders and vets.
     
  18. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #18
    The Doonesbury strip from last Sunday seem germane to this thread's subject...

    [​IMG]
     
  19. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #19
    I posted this in the last voter ID thread and am pasting it here because it's still relevant, true, and answers why voter ID laws are nothing more than attempts to suppress certain types (aka poor, aka Democratic) voters:

    To get an ID in Missouri, you need one of each from the following groups:

    1. US Birth Certificate, US Passport, US certification of citizenship, naturalization or birth abroad
    2. Social security number
    3. Utility bill, paycheck stub, mortgage document, voter registration card, property tax receipt, housing rental contract, bank statement.

    Now, imagine for a second you're homeless:

    From group one, you don't have a passport because you're not traveling overseas anytime soon, not to mention a passport is well over 100 bucks that you don't have. You were born here, so no certificate of citizenship. Birth certificate? I'd guess you don't have one readily available. To get a copy of your BC in St. Louis County, it's $15. But you're homeless. You don't have $15, and if you did, it would go towards food. Then there's the cost of the bus fare to get to the office of vital records to get the BC.

    Group two, social security number. I don't think you have to actually show the SS card. Hopefully you know your SSN. This might be the easiest requirement,

    Group three, again, you're homeless. What utilities? You don't have any of those. Paycheck stub? Yeah, you're probably not working. Mortgage document and housing rental contract are out because you have neither. Property tax receipt - what property? I also strongly doubt you have a bank account, so that's out. Lastly, the final accepted document from group 3 is a voter registration card - which you need an ID to obtain.

    And finally, you need $11 to pay the fee for the ID itself, which, if you're homeless, is a lot of money you don't have.

    So, if you don't have a birth certificate, at a minimum, it will cost you $26 to get an ID, not including transportation. $26 might not be a lot of money to you and me, but if a poor person manages to scrape together $26, they're going to spend it on food, not an ID.
     
  20. SwiftLives macrumors 65816

    SwiftLives

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    #20
    I'm pretty sure that over the past 20 years - probably longer - every registered voter in the US has been required to show an ID at the polls. A Voter ID card - which is generally given for free when you register to vote - and a drivers license are typically the most common forms of ID.

    No one - absolutely no one - is seriously arguing that some form of identification should not be required to vote. From the above quoted text, I'm not entirely sure that you understand or acknowledge this point.

    The argument is that these new voter identification laws generally require someone to pay money in order to get an identification to vote. And that sounds suspiciously like a poll tax. And I sincerely hope that you do not support charging money to allow a registered citizen to vote.

    I will support a more robust system of voter identification on these conditions:
    1) The new voter identification card is made available for free to any citizen who requests it.
    2) Materials required to obtain a voter identification card are provided for free to every citizen who requests them.
    3) Transportation to and from places where voter IDs are made and/or registered is provided for free to any citizen who requests it.

    Otherwise - if money is required to change hands or any artificial obstacles are created anywhere in whatever arbitrary process a state comes up with to require a voter ID card, then as far as I'm concerned, it's a poll tax.
     
  21. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #21
    Tell those same people they have a million dollar check with their name on it...all they need is ID.

    Somehow producing documents would magically become easy I bet.
     
  22. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    #22
    If you had a million dollars waiting for you, I'm sure you could find someone to help you produce an ID.

    However, because America has lots of poverty, there are groups of people who cannot, or would be very hard to get a State Issued ID, as I mentioned, they are not free and are only offered at a handful of offices around states. Very hard for someone who is very low income, or a senior or disabled person who can't drive or use public transit.

    This whole voted ID thing is trying to fix a problem that doesn't exist.

    Now, if you want to go door to door to people who don't have the resources to get IDs and hand them out free of charge. No problems. I don't believe you should have to spend money to exercise a constitutional right.
     
  23. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #23
    I'm assuming you also support providing free public transit to get the ID and all required supporting documents to obtain the ID? Because otherwise it isn't free and will still be difficult or impossible for people who don't drive to get.

    I doubt it, but you can always take $1,000,000 of your own money and do an experiment.
     
  24. Technarchy macrumors 603

    Technarchy

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    #24
    Yes, like having to pay for background checks to purchase a firearm. Those aren't free. Think if the poor who are just trying to enjoy a constitutional right.
     
  25. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

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    #25
    Yep, that is exactly what it is. And its a partisan poll tax, being pushed by the GOP. Voter ID laws would effect the poor, senior citizens, and the physically and mentally disabled. All of which generally don't vote for republicans ( who would want these people on the street and dead ), so they figure that if they can't win their vote. Take away their right to vote.
     

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