People in Detroit are hiring paramilitary guards

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Jul 19, 2019.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #1
    link

    you are on your own.
     
  2. velocityg4 macrumors 601

    velocityg4

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    #3
    What sort of powers do they have? Is it just like a security guard or any private individual? Powers similar to the police?

    It's nothing new. Private law enforcement goes back a long way. It just took a back seat as government agencies took a predominant role.
     
  3. Zenithal macrumors G3

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    #4
    I'd imagine companies like Ford are hiring them to keep a sweep area way outside the plants.

    With the budget some of these companies have, that question has little relevance.
     
  4. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #5
    I’d assume Ford has always had private security guards...
     
  5. Zenithal macrumors G3

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    #6
    On their property, yes. I'm suggesting way out of the sweep area. Think a 2-3 miles radius around the main enclosure of the plants.


    The issue with Detroit is that not all of Detroit is in disrepair. Michigan in general is a very strange state because the economic boom or stagnation is so black and white rather than seamless variance you'd see in most other states. Some parts of the state are high income and homes will fetch high 7 figures to low 8 figures, and some parts are dilapidated that even a villager's hut will look glamorous compared to the house.
     
  6. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #7
    Detroit is not an example of the failure of Government. It's an example of the failures (or at least the byproducts) of Capitalism.

    For most of the 20th century, Detroit was one of the wealthiest cities in the world. The Big Three automakers had hundreds of thousands of well-paid workers, and supported another couple of million working at suppliers.

    But starting in the 1970s, that began to change. Increasing labor costs (driven, again, by healthcare) meant that even the US automakers started looking elsewhere (as in Mexico) for assembly plants. Poor quality and inefficiency meant that consumers started buying Japanese, German, and Korean-made cars.

    Detroit, as a city, has less than half the population its housing stock could support. And for a host of reasons, it never was able to spur the sort of replacement industry that cities like New York and Chicago were able to. And without the tax revenue of a large and prosperous citizenry, it became locked into a death-spiral.

    Its not government that failed Detroit.
     
  7. A.Goldberg macrumors 68020

    A.Goldberg

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    #8
    I’m not sure I’d say the situation Detroit is in is a failure of capitalism, rather largely the consequence of capitalism.

    American automakers experienced substantial troubles due to the OPEC oil embargo in the 70’s and the subsequent recession lasting though 80’s- not to mention some amazing product failures. The big 3 were not poised to pivot quickly to selling inexpensive, fuel efficient, reasonable quality compact cars that foreign manufactures had mastered. Add on top of that mismanagement of these companies, complex issues with unions (who over the years have caused significant problems but also are likely largely responsible for these companies still existing) and of course gas you mentioned outsourcing of jobs. Not just American jobs, but in the 1990’s there was also a huge influx of Japanese and German manufacturing to the US.

    Detroit also had major issues with white flight and the problems that cascade from a rapidly declining population and poverty (reduced tax base, financial problems, cuts in programs and services, increasing crime, corruption, etc). So perhaps as a biproduct government failed the community, but as a consequence of other causes. But it does make you wonder should the government done more to prop the automakers- like we saw in the 2008 financial crisis. To this day I have mixed feelings about that decision but had the bailouts not been made I suppose things would be far worse. It’s just hard for me to justify the government saving GM and Chrysler when it’s largely a result of these companies failures and longstanding issues that they bear responsibility for.

    I believe the government could do better these days to bring a revival to Detroit, even if it’s not automotive related. Things seem so far gone and desperate that a turnaround won’t be possible without significant intervention. Detroit needs a bailout of its own and an impetus to draw companies back to the area.
     
  8. blackfox macrumors 65816

    blackfox

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  9. VictorTango777 macrumors 6502

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    #10
    Isn't state and tax funded anything, including police departments, considered socialism?
     
  10. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #11
    Yes. We have too much socialism already
     
  11. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #12
    So this is a good thing as far as you're concerned?
     
  12. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #13
    Nope. Democrats screwed Detroit up
     
  13. spacemnspiff, Jul 22, 2019
    Last edited: Jul 22, 2019

    spacemnspiff macrumors 6502a

    spacemnspiff

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    #14
    I thought you didn't need police or government, only guns, grenade launchers and tomahawks. :p
     
  14. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #15
    wish I could get some, to a degree some are better off, plenty of times police are just there generating revenue for the city at the expense of the people :eek:
     
  15. Chew Toy McCoy macrumors regular

    Chew Toy McCoy

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    #16
    They should just finish relocating Detroit to Mexico. There, I solved it.
     
  16. pshufd macrumors 65816

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    #17
    My town supports its police officers as far as I can tell. My state has an overall low rate of crime and I'd guess that the surveillance society is growing here. I don't recall a burglary in our HOA in the past thirty years but that's because there are a lot of people out and about the neighborhood and an incredible increase in the number of dogs. It's possible the local gun shop has something to do with it too.
     
  17. BoxerGT2.5 macrumors 68000

    BoxerGT2.5

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    #18
    You know your city is in the toilet when guys like Barry Sanders and Calvin Johnson hang'em up like they did.
     
  18. spacemnspiff macrumors 6502a

    spacemnspiff

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    #19
    But there is a wall to go through. Can Detroit scale the wall?
     
  19. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

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    #20
    if they scale CA's wall they can get housing and in HC ....................
     
  20. SandboxGeneral Moderator emeritus

    SandboxGeneral

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  21. LizKat macrumors 603

    LizKat

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    #22
    I was just thinking that any time Detroit hires someone, that someone's gotta eat lunch, buy gas, stop for a quart of milk on the way home... pay rent or write a check for the mortgage... get the lawn mowed or buy a lawn mower... and pretty soon they might get all up in Detroit's face and show up to a city council meeting and suggest the city find a few bucks to half-repave some road between them and their job... and a few road crew get hired for 2 days... and they spend some of their pay on gas and food too, which is all good for Detroit but they also got what to kick towards the rent...

    What goes around comes around and meanwhile can springboard stuff that ends up an improvement for a community, more so than whatever some employer had in mind while hiring a few people for any kind of job.
     
  22. SandboxGeneral Moderator emeritus

    SandboxGeneral

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    #23
    The city, as most people know, has been struggling in many ways for decades since the auto industry fell from grace so to say. They're trying to pick the pieces up with investments and encouragement in the tech sector and other areas. But sometimes I wonder if there would be anything at all in the city if it weren't for the sports teams and new stadiums in the downtown area. Otherwise, there is little reason for me to go into the city-proper on a regular basis.

    It seems as though politics gets in the way of progress more often than not.
     
  23. pshufd macrumors 65816

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    #24
    The huge problem with a lot of places is pension obligations. These things seemingly live forever and represent liabilities that can't be paid for in a death spiral.
     
  24. LizKat macrumors 603

    LizKat

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    #25
    Yah I've seen that even in little towns around here when the town fathers balk at "the very idea!" of having a Gap or Banana Republic occupy a vacant slot in the one and only shopping mall. What, the Ames that went bankrupt and so provided an empty storefront back in the 90s -- (!) leaving only a supermarket as a real anchor store in the mall-- was so much more desirable a mall occupant than a clothing store? I could live a long time and not understand those dudes. Maybe I missed something in the Bible about the sins of hip clothing.

    I've been hoping that tech hubs putting feet down in non-coastal areas will eventually help the host communities more if their employees can mature inside that company location, and the companies stay put. The older employees are who end up with purchasing power to sustain a more robust selection of eateries, shops, theaters etc.

    If the tech hubs are just meant to house rotations of young entry-level coders etc. then word gets around and for many, maybe even most of such employees, a job in Detroit may become just a way to do time and update a resumé off the experience. I would hope for more from companies trying to settle into the area.

    For awhile there I was reading in media some accounts of a bunch of pretty enthusiastic new Detroiters who regarded themselves more or less as homesteaders -- and it sounded like they didn't mind lack of assorted amenities. They'd have been most interested in whether could find a good hardware shop nearby or had to order their DIY materials for home renovations from Amazon... meanwhile later for that larger selection of ethnic restaurants or movie theaters. First they have to get bored refinishing their basements.

    Still it's encouraging that the Detroit Symphony Orchestra more than just soldiers on. And it's past wonderful that they've got stuff like on-demand replay on their website to help them survive.

    It does take time for a rebuilding effort to get enough momentum not to fail during a dip in the economy. A crash could pretty much put paid to it, I suppose. But then another crash in the USA would affect far more than just the attempts to restore Detroit's vitality in a post-manufacturing economy.

    In the meantime every hire in the area means another quart of milk some store can hope to sell as the employee nears home and Siri says "hey the milk... there's the store..." :)
     

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42 July 19, 2019