Petition Created to ‘Suspend Social Justice Courses’

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by cfedu, Apr 24, 2016.

  1. cfedu macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #1
    http://www.breitbart.com/tech/2016/04/23/petition-created-to-suspend-social-justice-courses/
    https://www.change.org/p/universities-suspend-social-justice-in-universities

    What are your thoughts, do you think this is censorship?
     
  2. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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  3. impulse462 Suspended

    impulse462

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    #3
    this is just a manufactured controversy. majority of college students don't act like a typical SJW. the media just hypes it and its funny how people fall for it.
     
  4. cfedu thread starter macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #4
    I guess that would get more women into STEM and close the pay gap! I think the majority of students in Iran in STEM are women.
     
  5. Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

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    #5
    Censorship is what many so-called “social justice warriors” routinely attempt: silencing of opposing or differing opinions, narratives, thoughts and ideas. There are some social justice warriors trying to fight good fights, but more often than not, many seem like nothing more than whining, close-minded cowards.
     
  6. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #6
    Halfwits at Breitbart writing approvingly of someone accusing others of indoctrinating a pseudoscientific cult is sheer comedy.
    --- Post Merged, Apr 25, 2016 ---
    Clearly the high-minded answer to that is ... petitions calling for censorship! Well played. *golfclap*
     
  7. Jess13 Suspended

    Jess13

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    #7
    Where did I pro or con the petition? All that I did was make a point about many so-called SJWs.
     
  8. cfedu thread starter macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #8
    Would you approve of a petition if a history class was teachings that blacks in America were never slaves, would that be censorship?
     
  9. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #9
    I think there are a lot of people in the world who don't really understand what universities are for.

    (Hint: They aren't supposed be upmarket trade schools, designed to feed a supply of pre-trained worker drones into the corporate/industrial complex.)

    The good thing about this country is that we have a well engrained tradition of Free Speech. If you can find a college dean to go along with it, you can teach a course on pretty much anything. There are a number of universities that offer courses on Comic Books and Graphic Novels, for example. You may not get the funding you might like, but I am pretty sure the Government isn't going to come calling to shut you down.

    I personally find it strangely reassuring that the knuckle draggers at Breitbart and the usual suspects here in the online world think "banning social justice courses" is a good idea. Once your suspicions about the intellect and character of some people get confirmed enough times, it starts to look a lot less like a theory - and more like a law of nature.
     
  10. cfedu thread starter macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #10
    While I do agree with some of what you say, the petition is not about banning these classes, it wants to suspend them in order to get rid of parts that are not truthful. If factually incorrect statistics are being used, I feel that there should be a correction to the subject. I would not go as far as suspending, but the subject should be addressed.
     
  11. aaronvan, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016

    aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #11
    And parents have the honor of spending $40,000/year tuition so their kid can get a Bachelor's in Comic Book Theory.
     
  12. Huntn Suspended

    Huntn

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    #12
    I agree whole heartedly. Liberal Arts Colleges are designed to produce well rounded individuals exposed to a variety of ideas, or as you said, they could just go to the local trades school. I did not pick on why they think social justice courses are bad for minds being educated especially in a country whose creation and foundation is supposed to be based on social justice. It's perplexing.
     
  13. aaronvan, Apr 25, 2016
    Last edited: Apr 25, 2016

    aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #13
    So trade school kids aren't well rounded and exposed to a variety of ideas? How elitist.

    Seriously, what is a "social justice course?" If we're talking about a course on Caesar Chavez than of course that shouldn't be suspended, banned, or whatever they're talking about. However, if they're teaching courses on how to occupy the President's office by handcuffing each-to-each, do you really need a course to teach that? It's all on the Internet or go the library and read Saul Alinsky. And it's not like these snowflakes are being challenged in any way or being exposed to controversial ideas. You know these SJ courses are one big exercise in leftist-liberal Groupthink.
     
  14. cfedu thread starter macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #14
    I think people are misunderstanding this petition, it's not about getting rid of these classes but rather fixing them. Teaching kids that all white people are racist, women do not have equality and having professors like Melissa Click are the target of this campaign, or at least that is what I gather. If social science is a science, it should be subject to peer review. If it can not stand up to peer review it should be modified or rebranded to what it actually is.
     
  15. Huntn Suspended

    Huntn

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    #15
    How tradesman of you to say so. Did you go to a trade school? ;) :p

    Seriously, don't know the difference between a trade school and a liberal arts education and take offense at what I said? Ok, so you probably don't agree, but there is a distinct difference in philosophy, and nothing elitist about describing it in that fashion. You either go to auto mechanic trade school to learn how to fix cars or you can go to a Liberal Arts college to be exposed to a variety of ideas and philosophies. The former is primarily designed to teach you a specific trade. The latter is to open your brain, although I can remember gripping about why do I need to take Spanish?? Lol. And nothing precludes other avenues for individuals to be exposed to a variety of philosophies, history, literature, and such. It's just that the LA College is designed to get the ball rolling in something more than learning a trade.

    Reinforcement:
    Some college majors focus on preparing students for very specific careers. For example, a nursing major gives you the technical skills and knowledge you need to work as a nurse, and prepares you to pass the licensing exam for that career. We can call majors like these career-oriented majors.

    Another road to a career is a liberal arts major. The liberal arts is an umbrella term for many subjects of study including literature, philosophy, history and languages. Students who major in these subjects don’t build technical skills for a specific profession, but they still learn valuable career skills: for example, the ability to communicate effectively and solve problems creatively.

    You tell me what are they teaching in college about social justice? If someone majors in social justice, what kind of a job would they plan on getting? When I was in college, we had art majors as in painting Rembrants, but there was also commercial art majors designed to find employment in advertising, architectural, media related careers, a thing that required images. They required that the straight art majors take some vocational style courses, so they would not become starving artists after they graduated. :)
     
  16. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #16
    Empirical facts are different from social theory. Social justice theory should be open for debate even if you disagree with it. But facts are facts, not subject to debate.
     
  17. cfedu thread starter macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #17
    And facts are what this petition is about. Teaching 1 in 5 women get raped in school is not empirical evidence. Teaching that women make 77% for the same job as a man is not backed up in fact.
     
  18. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #18
    No, what this petition about is shutting down all thought and study on the subject.

    Whether the number is 1 in 5 or 1 in 7 or one in ten, women do get raped in school. It is a topic worthy of study. Likewise, whether it is 77% or some other number, women do make less than men. That too is worthy of study.
     
  19. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #19
    Don't insult my life choices. :mad:
     
  20. cfedu thread starter macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #20
    Women do not make less than men when they do the same job, they make less when you average out the total population. Younger people make less than older people, is this worthy of study, is this discrimination?
    Should we teach that young adults make 50% of what older people make for doing the same job? It has been ilegal to pay people different amounts for doing the same job for almost 50 years.
     
  21. Renzatic Suspended

    Renzatic

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    #21
    So in order to combat the growing threat of overly shrill people, intent on suppressing the first amendment right of others for the good of society, we must ourselves be overly shrill, and suppress their first amendment rights for the good of society.

    ...it's like a conga line of knee jerk reactionaries.
     
  22. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #22
    Hahaha. This is rich as ****.

    We can do this right after we replace all the science and history textbooks in the south with books that are scientifically and historically accurate.
     
  23. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #23
    The petition is a full-throated screed against something, and hopes to stop that something by stopping it, or something.

    It's a ham-fisted attack, full of big scary words like indoctrinate and pseudoscientific that fails to identify what a social justice course even is, nor does the petition identify the mechanism to temporary halt these courses.
     
  24. Robisan macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Younger vs. older is a definable, qualitative difference, with the latter having more real life experience/knowledge. In short, older people are compensated for the additional value they bring to the job.

    The definable, qualitative male - female difference is what? Besides anatomy, what? Please provide us with a rational non-discrimination-based reason why an equally educated group of women are valued less than men in the same age groups?

    Let me ask it in a very specific way: Why should the female graduates of a specific university be valued less by the business community than the male graduates of the same university? In the aggregate, the women will earn less than 80% of what the men earn. Please provide a non-discrimination-based justification for this.
     
  25. cfedu thread starter macrumors 65816

    cfedu

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    #25
    Because they make different life choices. Why should a male a female graduate from the same school make the same amount of money? First, what did they they have the same degree? If no, then we can stop right there. If they do have the same degree, have they applied to the same employer? if not we can stop there as well. Now if a male and female with the same degree are hired for the same employer, they will make the same income. In fact women have been out earning men in new employment int he last few year as companies of a smaller pool of female prospects in certain fields and pay them a premium for that.

    Life choices make up almost 99% of the pay gap, if schools actually taught the truth, women would have closed most of the earnings gap by now. My sister is a lawyer and makes the same as the males in her office (zero gap) but most of the lawyers in her group are women. She has told me that she could make double the money if she worked downtown for a big law firm, but that would not be the lifestyle that she would want. She is not interested in 1.5 hour commute and 80 hour work weeks and guess what? Most of the lawyers for those kind of firms are men, same goes in the medical profession, female MD tend to go into fields which offer a better quality of life.

    No one is paid more for the same job, it is complete BS. We can start with people with no education, they tend to get minimum wage jobs, the same minimum wage if you are man or a women. Men with no education will have the potential to make more more money because of the sexual dimorphism of humans and that is the reason you do not see many women in jobs like construction. Is this sexism? No, it is just the way things are.


    If you really think women or black women make 77cents or 50 cents on the dollar, you can test it. Have a black woman and a white man apply to Walmart for the same job, compare their payslips after 2 weeks and let the world know once and for all that black women make 50 cents on the dollar to a white man. There have literally been billions of pay slips generated since the equal pay act, if there is a gap for doing he same job, this would have been brought up ages ago.
     

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