Police Gun Down 68 Year Old Marine, After He Accidentally Triggers Medical Alert.

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by AP_piano295, Mar 29, 2012.

  1. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #2
    We are worried about getting guns out of the hands out of criminals, how about taking the guns away from bad cops.
     
  2. Cromulent macrumors 603

    Cromulent

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    #3
    Shocking. Nothing much else one can say about the incident.
     
  3. WillEH, Mar 29, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 30, 2012

    WillEH macrumors 6502a

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    #4
    Very sad, many sides of the story. Hope the truth comes out.
     
  4. Ugg macrumors 68000

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    #5
    Maybe the right wing needs to tone down its fear mongering first. I'm just appalled that here we are in the safest decade in America since the 60s and everyone runs around yelling that the sky is falling. What's wrong with those people?
     
  5. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #6
    They thought he pulled a knife under the described circumstances so they shot him twice in the chest? This makes me sad. I wish it provided more information, but this sounds truly ridiculous.
     
  6. eric/ Guest

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  7. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #8
    I am more appalled that we have cops shooting people with no cause, this seems to be a trend that is getting worse.
     
  8. MorphingDragon, Mar 29, 2012
    Last edited: Mar 29, 2012

    MorphingDragon macrumors 603

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  9. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #10
    Fear is useful, and is usually encouraged.
     
  10. Grey Beard macrumors 65816

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    #11
    That saddens me, but even in peaceful little NZ there have been instances of mental health issues being treated as a live or death situation and unfortunately it can be the death of the patient.

    KGB:cool:
     
  11. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #12
    Sure, fear is second only to glittering generalitiess on the propagandists' Top 10 Most Useful Tricks, but as Jefferson once pointed out, "When the people fear the government, there is tyranny. When the government fears the people, there is liberty."
     
  12. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #13

    So now police shootings in Florida are related to Republican fear mongering. Oooooooookay. :rolleyes:
     
  13. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #14
    Police were doing as they were trained

    Unfortunately, the police were doing as they were trained to do. It doesn't matter if the subject is mentally ill -- either instantly obey the police officer, or, get shot. Very, very sad.

    When are we going to stop training the police to shoot in cases like this, and, train them how to handle mentally ill people?

    The police were judge, jury, and executioner. The crime: mental illness. Being mentally ill is a capital crime today.
     
  14. AP_piano295 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #15
    Actually there is a protocol for dealing with mentally ill persons and it isn't taunting the victim.

    Did you read the article in its entirety?
     
  15. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #16
    As the article says, "many" (I think "some" is a better characterization) "police departments have trained corps of officers expert in talking with the emotionally upset. Their rule of thumb: talk quietly and de-escalate."

    Apparently, White Plains isn't one of those departments. I think every police department needs such training. Unfortunately, it isn't fashionable. Anti-terrorist/SWAT/etc training is fashionable, despite the fact that .001% (made up statistic) of officers have dealt with terrorists, and 100% (not made up) of officers have dealt with the emotionally upset (including mentally ill) people. Sadly, we are going back to the dark ages regarding people who are not at 100% mental capacity for whatever reason.

    I agree 100% that taunting people suspected (I don't know what the true status of Kenneth Chamberlain, Sr. actually was) of being mentally ill is ignorant and vicious -- completely unbecoming police officers. If true. Unfortunately, most people don't know any better, and naturally, can't identify with the mentally ill, unless they receive training. If they haven't had such training, they fall back on the current training fashion -- demand 100% compliance or else. Again, I don't know if the officers actually did taunt Mr. Chamberlain, or if it can be 100% proved. But, he is 100% dead-- that is an inescapable fact.

    And in the United States, the courts are often the only way to change something like this. I hope White Plains gets successfully sued (yes, I'm a taxpayer, too) for millions. After enough successful lawsuits, cities will start training their police departments better in order to save money. Sad, but true.

    Yes, three times. What did I miss? I don't know if I can take reading it again.
     
  16. Huntn macrumors G5

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    #17
  17. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #18
    It makes me sad, and even assuming they're telling the truth and he "went for a knife" does that mean they had to shoot to kill? They shot him twice in the chest.
     
  18. localoid macrumors 68020

    localoid

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    #19
    Most cops would respond to a potentially lethal threat by firing two shots at center mass. That's just how they're trained. They're not Roy Rogers on a TV show so they won't try to the shoot the gun/knife out of someone's hand. Only a fool would attempt that in real-life.

    Yes, cops do need to be trained to recognize and respond appropriately to persons with mental health issue. Some police agencies have been addressing that issue for some time, but others apparently devote little thought or time to the problem.

    I have no idea of how aware these cops were of what was really going on.... But assuming they had no clue, one has to try to imagine their perspective: A person who knows how to throw a knife could easily kill you from >10 feet away in a split second. While a cop could try to accurately shot a guy holding a knife in the kneecap, that guy could in theory kill the cop before the guy with the knife hit to the ground.

    The whole thing is really sad. But the way we deal with mental health in this country is quite a tragic tale. Maybe someday we'll make an effort to do something about that...
     
  19. thekev macrumors 604

    thekev

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    #20
    I think you already know I didn't mean it like that.

    They mentioned tasers and stuff before this. I'm sure we're not reading the entire story here. I have trouble with internet articles. They never cover the depth of information I'd like to read.

    I really don't become enraged over these things, especially when I don't have all the information. This one just made me sad. I feel sorry for the guy and his family.
     
  20. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #21
    Assuming Cops have two hands, Glock in dominant hand, Taser in the other. ;)
     
  21. jnpy!$4g3cwk macrumors 65816

    jnpy!$4g3cwk

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    #22
    OK, let me try one more time to explain why I do become enraged. Cops deal with mentally ill people every single day, except maybe in North Dakota in the winter, when any homeless mentally ill person not inside would already be dead. And incidents like this happen all the time (I have posted on this before).

    I have never heard of even one incident where a cop responding to an incident like this was attacked by a knife-throwing ninja or circus performer with a set of balanced knives handy. It could happen-- it just never happens. But, every day, incidents like this happen somewhere.

    The only threat was non-compliance. There was no threat to anyone's safety. The cops responded as they have been trained to do (except for the taunting part-- which, if true, shows that they knew what they were dealing with). The problem is the training-- we are training the police to act in a cowardly way. Totally unnecessary, and tragic, actually, that we train them to do the wrong thing -- something they surely never wanted to do when they signed up to be cops.
     
  22. AP_piano295 thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #23
    I find this extremely accurate, I work as security for my university.

    At a recent training event they told us it was "correct" to shut down an entire building for 4 hours because a box was left out of place by a professor (box of papers left in a hallway where boxes weren't normally left). Now instead of just checking the box a guard called in a potential bomb threat. And this is deemed the correct response.

    I found it patently ridiculous, if we wan't to assume that everything has a maximum threat potential (Hobo = Ninja, Innocuous box = Bomb) where does it end?
     

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