Political Correctness

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by 0098386, Sep 9, 2017.

  1. 0098386 Suspended

    0098386

    Joined:
    Jan 18, 2005
    #1
    Incredible video here of James O’ Brien speaking to a caller that uses the phrase “political correctness” and in it destroys the phrase, the meaning behind it, and the bandwagon it has become.

    http://www.lbc.co.uk/radio/presente...-obrien-response-cites-political-correctness/

    I too wonder about it. Personally I don’t believe in being politically correct all the time, I know many do, but I like to call people out in politically incorrect terms. It’s not great no but that’s just who I am. However, much like the term “SJW”, it seems that a group of people are angry that other people are doing something nice to help (in this story’s case) children that feel drawn towards certain clothes.

    But do watch the video in the article. It’s very interesting.
     
  2. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #2
    I like how he said its an "unlikely fantasy" for it to be illegal to label clothes for boys/girls, doesn't seem that unlikely to me.
     
  3. Scepticalscribe, Sep 9, 2017
    Last edited: Sep 9, 2017

    Scepticalscribe macrumors Westmere

    Scepticalscribe

    Joined:
    Jul 29, 2008
    Location:
    The Far Horizon
    #3
    Language is not always neutral, - although some who use it think it is - and is often used by the more powerful to describe the less powerful in ways that demean and denigrate and convey contempt for, the latter.

    This means that language is not simply a means of expression, but it is also be a tool of power.

    And, as such, it is also a transmitter of cultural values, attitudes and norms. Thus, it is used by the more powerful to describe the less powerful (such as some races and one gender) who have been described in ways - often belittling ways - which serve to reinforce this relationship of unfair power and which have become embedded in the very foundations of the language.

    As a result, the movement that became known as "political correctness" arose - emerged, and was developed - to challenge the use of language - especially when and how it has been used to belittle and demean some races, or minorities, gays, and women.

    In my experience, many of those who lament the rise of "political correctness" really lament that their right to verbally insult others - on the basis of their race, or gender, or sexual orientation - has been challenged and that they can no longer do so with quite the impunity and sly complicity that they may have enjoyed half a century ago.

    Above all, some who loudly lament the concept of 'political correctness' regret that some words, terms, and expressions which were verbally insulting on racist or gender grounds are no longer considered acceptable in polite, or even impolite speech.

    And that is no bad thing to have to give thought to what you want to say, and how you say it, before you open your mouth.
     
  4. LizKat macrumors 601

    LizKat

    Joined:
    Aug 5, 2004
    Location:
    Catskill Mountains
    #4

    Great post. Should maybe be pinned to the top of this forum.

    On the matter of the James O'Brien clip: this is O'Brien in top form, managing to conduct six minutes of conversation with a guy who doesn't want to go where he ends up and doesn't even become a bannable dude in the process.

    How many posts into a hot topic in PRSI do we get before we start having to think twice about whether really expressing what one is feeling is worth a moderated "vacation"? I mean six minutes worth of posts read aloud is a fair lot of posts (unless I'm in there somewhere). So it's possible to have a civilized debate in here. It may be that some of us would rather provoke the inclination of someone else to risk that vacation. It's not as noticeable right now as it tends to be in the ramp up to a US election, particularly during primaries when even intraparty debate becomes a minefield.

    Dispensing with what we've grown accustomed to calling "political correctness" is a usual tool of provocateurs who --as you suggested-- may have in mind being able to use slurs in the guise of being "forthright" or whatever. I'm not generally one to defend extremes and I'm on record in PRSI as going slack-jawed when some extreme forms of PC do turn up these days but to me there's no necessary difference between being forthright and being respectful of another person's humanity. It's even possible to be downright rude and still let everyone in the room feel that much respect. Sort of (but not quite) like managing to insult someone's post without insulting the person who put up the post. In PRSI, the former is acceptable but the latter gets one into very hot water. In real life the hot water part can get even hotter, since in the USA some insults uttered in public to a specific person may not be protected speech (the "fighting words" doctrine) and then there can be expensive legal consequences.
     
  5. s2mikey macrumors 68020

    s2mikey

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2013
    Location:
    Upstate, NY
    #5
    Im not sold that the phrase political correctness is simply blocking those that wish to insult others. Way too broad of a brush so to speak. How about when it pertains to stores not being able to display Christmas decorations when its during a Christian Holiday? Is it really "killing" these haters or is it reallyTHAT big of a deal? No, it certainly isnt but we cant "offend" anyone these days which is of course downright impossible. Everyones in some protected group somehow.

    There are numerous other instances where its stupid. Like even calling black people "African Americans" or Italian People "Italian Americans". What if they were born here? Most here were so how did we get stuck calling them using the name of a country they arent even from? Its all part of the PC thing. The list goes on and on.

    I get that some people DO want to inflict harm. But for the most part, the PC ridiculousness is real and is very silly. You cant say hardly anything without getting someonesboxer shorts all twisted up. Freeging relax. Would ya'll?
     
  6. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #6
    Honestly? You think department stores will be shut down and people arrested because they have a Men's and Women's clothing section?

    I mean, come on.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 9, 2017 ---
    Are you suggesting that a store has been prevented from displaying Christmas decorations during the Christmas Holiday? Or is that just a product of your imagination?
     
  7. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #7
    Hey man, having a men's and women's section might make some people feel confused. What happens if a girl who thinks shes a guy can't figure out what to do with the hole in the front of her underwear?
     
  8. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #8
    And that entitles her to sue the store because ...?
     
  9. Herdfan macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    #9
    That is a very good explanation of why it came about and why it can be important.

    But these days it is being used as a weapon to denigrate those who may have a different belief system than someone else has or simply didn't realize something was offensive. It should be a carrot, not a stick.

    Also, sometimes things need to be described correctly. Someone who yells ALLAHU AKBAR! before killing people in the name of Islam, is an Islamic Terrorist. There is simply no other way to describe it.

    Also, we can't see into people's minds. If someone looks like a girl and is referred to by some female pronoun or other gender specific term, should the person who didn't know they are transitioning be crucified for it? At some point EVERY SINGLE PERSON on this planet is going to use the wrong term. So be careful what you wish for as it may come back to bite you.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 9, 2017 ---
    Shut down and people arrested? No. But I can certainly see them protested by fringe groups which will lead to them caving.

    To a degree yes. Not by any legal authority, but simply for fear of be protested. Companies are so afraid to do anything that could offend the smallest group of people, but many times in their quest to avoid offending the small group, they piss off much larger groups. (See Target's stock price and sales numbers)
     
  10. shinji macrumors 65816

    shinji

    Joined:
    Mar 18, 2007
    #10
    I guess it's that time of year where Real Americans™ get whipped into a frenzy by right-wing talking heads over the non-existent War on Christmas.
     
  11. lowendlinux Contributor

    lowendlinux

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2014
    Location:
    North Country (way upstate NY)
    #11
    Pretty much the only thing I agree with in this whole statement is that "language is not always neutral" the going forward is that the non-neutral language is used to only denigrate women and minorities. I'll use my non-neutral language to denigrate anyone to include myself I'm very Nietzsche in my language, no one is off limits.

    "Only since they have been shot at do princes sit firmly in their throne"

    I will continue to take shot's at anyone who perceives they have power whether it's interpersonal, political, or real.
     
  12. sim667 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    #12
    Removing boys and girls labels from children's clothes isn't about political oppurtunities, it's about equal oppurtunities for both genders
     
  13. b0fh666 macrumors 6502a

    b0fh666

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Location:
    south
    #13
    nope, its just irrelevant and stupid. when u have external genitals/gonads you need different clothes.
     
  14. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

    Joined:
    Feb 2, 2009
    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #14
    Ever seen an alien? It's our future. Real progressives don't need reproductive organs.
     
  15. nutjob macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    #15
    Why do people need to be identified by gender?
     
  16. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

    Joined:
    Jun 11, 2014
    #16
    Indeed, little more is as horrifying than










    words.

     
  17. Herdfan macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    #17
    It is also a very quick way for a boy to get bullied on the playground. I know kids aren't supposed to do that, but they do. So mom goes to a store and sees a shirt she likes and buys it, boy wears it to school and some other boys decide it looks like a girl's shirt and the poor kid never had a chance.
     
  18. Zenithal macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Sep 10, 2009
    #18
    Yes, like wearing a Clippers shirt in California. You're just asking to be humiliated.
     
  19. sim667 macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Dec 7, 2010
    #19
    They don't.... thats the point.

    There's been quite a lot of research done in the UK about gender roles in classrooms, and the findings from it have been stark, and simply quite worrying.
     
  20. Herdfan macrumors 6502

    Joined:
    Apr 11, 2011
    #20
    So let me get this straight. If we no longer identify people by gender, then there can no longer be gender discrimination? No more wage gap. Cool.
     
  21. haxrnick macrumors 6502a

    haxrnick

    Joined:
    Aug 4, 2011
    Location:
    Seattle
    #21
    Because people sue McDonald's for spilling coffee on themselves because it was hot. Because, that's why.
     
  22. samcraig macrumors P6

    Joined:
    Jun 22, 2009
    Location:
    USA
    #22
    Some people use Political Correctness and slighting it as a way of just being rude, mean racist, homophobic, etc. It's lost a lot of it's meaning lately. In short - you don't have to be an a@#$hole. Further - if you are, own it. Don't make it out to be someone else's issue by calling them PC.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 11, 2017 ---
    It's important to understand the details of the case before dismissing it.

    https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Liebeck_v._McDonald's_Restaurants
     
  23. Raid macrumors 68020

    Raid

    Joined:
    Feb 18, 2003
    Location:
    Toronto
    #23
    Oh yes the confusion!!!1!!!11!! Won't somebody help this poor person! Seriously dude your argument is absurd as it is inconsequential.

    Yes guys need to bring back kilts so I can let the boys swing free!
     
  24. nutjob macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Feb 7, 2010
    #24
    So the findings have been stark, and worrying, BUT WHAT ARE THE FINDINGS????

    Again, why do we need to identify people by gender, and thus have clearly gendered clothing, or anything else?
     
  25. b0fh666 macrumors 6502a

    b0fh666

    Joined:
    Oct 12, 2012
    Location:
    south
    #25
    not that important to mee-self anymore, but I suppose people in search of sexual partners might care
     

Share This Page

52 September 9, 2017