Politifact's Lie of the Year

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Blue Velvet, Dec 17, 2010.

  1. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #1
    Politifact is an independent political fact-checking website. It's just released its award for Lie of the Year. Unfortunately, the top two come from Republicans:



    Why isn't it true?


    And how it was used:



    So when you occasionally read some posts in this forum, bear in mind where people pick this stuff up from.

    Bonus link:

    Study Finds Fox News Viewers Are The Most Misinformed
     
  2. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #2
    I especially like this example of misinformation:

     
  3. Blue Velvet thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #3
    What I find interesting is this snippet:

    That's the supposedly 'liberal media'.
     
  4. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #4
    The mandated end of the Pre-existing conditions policy is already leading to increasing cost of health insurance premiums.

    The cutback in Medicare reimbursement to doctors is already in abeyance.

    The exemptions in required coverage, aside from unions, now covers some 252 large corporations, last time I saw some news on that subject.

    Doesn't matter about "government takeover". Irrelevant. The whole deal is failing in its intent.

    What is of major interest is the final outcome of the federal court decisions about constitutionality.
     
  5. Blue Velvet thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #5
    Since most of its provisions don't kick in for another four years, I think you're being a little premature.

    Well, the track record for the law's opponents hasn't been great so far.

    Curious, I searched for 'government takeover of healthcare' with MRoogle to see who parroted this dishonest talking point in here.
     
  6. Blue Velvet thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #7
    Honestly? I couldn't possibly comment.
     
  7. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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  8. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #9
    BIG difference between big insurance companies jacking up their premiums because they can use this as an excuse to do so (with the side benefit of causing people to turn against something they oppose), and health care costs actually going up. This is one of the reasons the Democrats in 1993, the Dems in Mass more recently, Candidate Obama, and many progressives now opposed this health care plan. (Yes, Obamacare is virtually identical to the 1993 republican health care plan and Romneycare).

    I can't imagine how or why a health care plan that had to be gutted of its main provisions just to try to get blue-dog democrat support, might not be able to do what it was intended to do. I can almost guarantee you that the law that would have achieved its intent would have received even more vocal opposition than what this crappy bill got. Why? Because the right was out to defend the massive health care industry and their profits.

    Not very interesting, the decision is pretty straight forward unless Roberts decides to make stuff up again.
     
  9. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #10
    Yes, and the hanging chads are getting annoying.
     

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  10. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #11
    I earlier called Obamacare a failure. Here's a little snippet from this morning; doesn't look like success to me:

    http://thedebtweowe.com/obamacare-n...t-of-the-profession-over-the-next-three-years

    "The new poll mentioned above was a Merritt Hawkins survey of 2,379 doctors for the Physicians Foundation which was conducted back in August.

    According to that survey, 40 percent of U.S. doctors said that they would "retire, seek a nonclinical job in health care, or seek a job or business unrelated to health care" at some point over the next three years."
     
  11. MyDesktopBroke macrumors 6502

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    #12
    Remember that many progressive disapprove of the HCR. It basically just adds more bloated subsidies instead of trying to increase competition (public option, buying private plans across state lines, etc) to address the ballooning cost of paying for coverage.

    I don't think politifact is saying the reform is redeemed because of their ruling - they're a nonpartisan group. There are lefties (Alan Grayson) on their list, too. But the government didn't take over healthcare, and the fact that was peddled on every media without being checked at all makes the biggest lie of the year.
     
  12. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #13
    Why can't I find anything about this poll that doesn't come from a conservative blog referencing another conservative blog/opinion article? This is a week old and hasn't been picked up by anyone else? I smell something fishy. I'm gonna go ahead an call BS.
     
  13. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #14
    It's probably not that far from reality because it applies across the board. NASA will lose 60% of its engineers, teachers are going to be retiring en masse soon, etc, etc. Nobody is doing it based on any government policy, rather because they're nearing retirement age.

    In other words, the blog is just spinning an alternative reality.
     
  14. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

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    #15

    Yep. It's all about the baby boomers retiring. Baby boomers are considered those born in 1946-1964. Those born in 1946 are now 65 years old. The average retirement age in the US is 62.
     
  15. RebootD macrumors 6502a

    RebootD

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    #16
    For people like my parents the deletion of 'pre-existing condition' as part of why they deny benefits is an amazing deal. My father had to retire early due to lifelong scoliosis (which made him nearly paralyzed by age 60)
    and he got coverage through medical disability... too bad my mother, who needs a new hip, got denied by every single private insurance company because of her 'pre-existing condition'. Basically they knew she needed her hip replaced again so no one would touch her. She is still paying COBRA through his old employer which costs 2/3 of their income alone.

    We need legislation like this and your conservative hosted poll will do nothing to detract from that.

     
  16. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #17
    The problem with ending the pre-existing condition deal (typically, three years) is that it means a notable increase in the price of health insurance. Since the whole "reform" thing came about because of the high cost of health insurance, it doesn't seem to me that making the cost higher is what I'd call an imrovement.

    I could not care less about "liberal" vs. "conservative" in all this. The results of the Merritt Hawkins survey aren't political; they're feedback from the medical folks. Same for cost issues: $$$ are arithmetic, they're not Dem or Pub opinions.
     
  17. Ugg, Dec 19, 2010
    Last edited: Dec 19, 2010

    Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #18
    'Rat, I'm disappointed in you. Turns out that wasn't a poll at all but a survey. Not only that but there are issues with the wording of the questions.

    The number of students entering the medical profession is worth discussing and it also brings up a lot of valuable questions. Mainly, specialists are getting paid insane amounts of money for mostly regular work hours while normal doctors work insane hours for peanuts. There definitely needs to be an examination of medial wages.

    I've brought this up any number of times and you never really respond to it, but I'll try again.

    Most medical dollars for the average person are spent during the last three years of their lives. Obviously if your doomsday scenario comes even close to being true and we need to slash medical spending to the bone, then seniors are going to take the brunt of it. What are you willing to cut first? Maybe nobody over the age of 65 gets resuscitated? Maybe that's a little extreme, but the point remains, if we're going to cut, even if it's a percentage across the board, who gets thrown under the wheels first?

    http://mediamatters.org/research/201003170065
     
  18. itcheroni macrumors 6502a

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    #19
    Actually, the health care industry will make much more profits under the bill. Imagine you sold widgets and the government passed a law that forced everyone to buy it, you would certainly make more money. Health care stocks immediately rose after it was passed.
     
  19. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #20
    We know directly from the politicians that the healthcare bill is nothing more than a stepping stone towards full on Universal Healthcare. Anyone who doesn't know this, is a political dunce. As such, the words 'government takeover' are 100% perfectly reasonable. Anyone who denies such things is purposefully burying their head in the sand.
     
  20. macfan881 macrumors 68020

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  21. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #22
    Anyone who translates "universal healthcare" as a system which denies any private outfit the opportunity to operate, as it were, is ignoring the fact that private healthcare and universal healthcare coexist quite happily in every country which has UHC. To keep on repeating that UHC will represent a government takeover is both ludicrous and dishonest.
     
  22. fivepoint macrumors 65816

    fivepoint

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    #23
    Are you being serious right now?
    UHC is by definition a government takeover. Although ownership may remain private, function, cost, care, etc. will all be dictated by the government central bureaucratic authority.

    The funny thing about you liberals is that you can't even be honest about your own intentions.
     
  23. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #24
    Absolutely wrong again. This does not happen. Private is private.

    What "intention" would I have, as a UK resident? :confused:
     
  24. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #25
    I don't think you have any intentions, but at the same time we do have a lot of UK residents overly concerned with republicans, democrats, and american politics in general.
     

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