POLL: How is the US President handling the downed fight 17 issue?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by tshrimp, Jul 22, 2014.

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How is Obama's reponse been to the downed airliner?

  1. Good

    17 vote(s)
    42.5%
  2. Bad

    14 vote(s)
    35.0%
  3. Undecided

    5 vote(s)
    12.5%
  4. Other

    4 vote(s)
    10.0%
  1. tshrimp macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    #1
    Just wondering to this point how people here at PRSI think Obama is handling the Malaysia Airline Flight 17 that was shot down.
     
  2. lannister80 macrumors 6502

    lannister80

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    #2
    About as well as can be expected. He, and the US, are not really centrally involved in this incident. We can stay out of it a bit.

    Which is nice for a change!
     
  3. capathy21 macrumors 65816

    capathy21

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2014
    Location:
    Houston, Texas
    #3
    Yes! This exactly.
     
  4. Vanilla Ice macrumors 6502

    Vanilla Ice

    Joined:
    Jan 30, 2011
    Location:
    Los Angeles
    #4
    He will get to the bottom of this. I'm sure Obama is just outraged over this.
     
  5. jkcerda macrumors 6502a

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #5
    things might be getting serious, Heard Obama might un-friend Putin over this :D
     
  6. lannister80 macrumors 6502

    lannister80

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    #6
    There's nothing to get to the bottom of. It's blatantly obvious that the plane was shot down by pro-Russia separatists (accidentally, they thought they were targeting an AN-26).
     
  7. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #7
    Well, we haven't lobbed a bomb yet, so thats good.

    What I'm seeing is a slow build up to the next great war, could be a decade but we're clearly aiming outward to the lawn to avoid the fact that the kitchen, dining room, basement, and living room are on fire.
     
  8. tshrimp thread starter macrumors 6502

    tshrimp

    Joined:
    Mar 30, 2012
    #8
    I do understand that there are article that state exactly what you are saying, and it might be correct. But from what I understand a BUK missile system takes years to master, and it would be difficult with the lack of training a separatist would have, for them to be able to do this. It would be great if someone on PRSI who is ex military who has experience with this could chime in.
     
  9. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Location:
    Shady Dale, Georgia
    #9
    I spent most of my military career as a 13A. I don't know that I'd say it takes years to understand and master a missile system but it doesn't happen overnight. Lack of training and experience could also have been at the root of this.

    The US Army trains 13M (MLRS crewmen) in 6 weeks, at Fort Sill, Oklahoma. At the end of that time they are qualified and proficient at firing the weapon. Are they experts? No, they will become better at the job as the years pass. They will continue to receive training and go through field exercises. The M270 is capable of firing guided or non-guided missiles. It takes a crew of three.
     
  10. zin Suspended

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    #10
    He should have sent some NTSB personnel because it's important that the cause is discovered and not simply left to be forgotten. His response so far of, "You're approaching the line and when you cross it, I will be mad", is getting ridiculous. It's not just Obama; British and European officials are also giving the same rhetoric. The only people so far that are pushing heavily for this are the Dutch, who have already opened war crimes proceedings in their own domestic courts.

    Possibly a little irrelevant but in the UK a public inquiry into the death of Alexander Litvinenko (the Russian citizen killed by radiation poisoning whilst in Britain) was recently announced, several years after it occurred. There was originally no public inquiry to determine exactly who killed him to ease international relations with Russia, thus effectively letting them off the hook.

    Appeasement doesn't work. It is important to find out quickly and decisively if the Russians were a part of this, not simply forget it and write it off as simply a war-time accident.
     
  11. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Location:
    Shady Dale, Georgia
    #11
    It really wouldn't matter if we had a YouTube video of Putin personally launching the missile that took down the aircraft. We are not going to war with Russia over it, nor should we. Europe can't afford to impose sanctions upon Russia because they need Russia more than Russia needs them. Russia is the third largest producer of oil in the world and a big percentage of that goes to Europe.

    Face it, Russia, like it or not is a super power in that region. The United States is war weary and cannot project its power to all points of the globe. Those days are gone.
     
  12. rdowns macrumors Penryn

    rdowns

    Joined:
    Jul 11, 2003
    #12

    NTSB and FBI personnel were sent there 4 days ago. The day before the plane was shot down, Obama enacted more sanctions against Russia. What more would you have him do?

    Suggestions from the Republicans in the US are to call to arm Ukraine and send missiles into the Czech Republic and Poland. Some people never learn. Of course, Obama should have called Putin a thug. :rolleyes:
     
  13. zin Suspended

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    #13
    Must have missed that. From what I read I thought he only said some mean stuff but it appears you're right.

    I am definitely not advocating military action but there has to be a point where economic sanctions will cease to work. Although, now I think about it, American sanctions in this regard can't be as effective as European sanctions, given that there is an extremely large amount of Russian wealth concentrated there, especially London, and Russia does much more business with Europe than North America.

    So far the EU has not imposed any radical economic sanctions such as full-scale trade embargos and is only targeting a very small number of individuals. Trade embargos are not particularly in the interest of Germany either, so it's doubtful the EU will impose anything that radical.
     
  14. impulse462 macrumors 68000

    impulse462

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    #14
    What about the Dutch? A lot of their citizens are needlessly dead. Should they just sit and take it?
     
  15. zin Suspended

    Joined:
    May 5, 2010
    Location:
    United Kingdom
    #15
    They were among the first to send investigators and have already opened a war crimes trial in their courts system.
     
  16. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

    Joined:
    Nov 3, 2005
    Location:
    UK
    #16
    Between who?
     
  17. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Location:
    Shady Dale, Georgia
    #17
    Tell me, what do you purpose the Dutch do? I've served with the Dutch military, while a fine group of people they are no match for Russia.
     
  18. quagmire macrumors 603

    quagmire

    Joined:
    Apr 19, 2004
    #18
    There is a process of how investigators are sent to aircraft accidents.

    First the country where it happened has priority then it is the country where the aircraft/airline is registered to, etc. NTSB people can only be sent to the investigation only if invited by the country that has the lead on the investigation. Given the NTSB's expertise, etc it does happen a lot. But if country in charge said screw you, Obama can't do a thing.

    But as pointed out, NTSB officials were sent to aid in the investigation.
     
  19. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Location:
    Fury 161
    #19
    I'm of the opinion that Russia's only hope is to use aggression to keep her energy grasp over Europe. Apart from energy, mining (and female porn performers, some -not me- would add) Russia doesn't have much as far as exports are concerned, and they have LOTS of internal problems. If they stop expanding, they'll implode, so they'll do whatever they think necessary in order not to lose these assets. A true superpower would be significant in more fields.
     
  20. Happybunny macrumors 68000

    Joined:
    Sep 9, 2010
    #20
    Please don't cry crocodile tears.

    Back in 2002 the US couldn't care a dam about the Dutch.

    Dutch still wincing at Bush-era ‘Invasion of The Hague Act’

    Though largely symbolic, the law could be having lasting implications.



    Target of invasion? At the International Criminal Court, shown here in January, the so-called Hague Invasion Act, passed by the US Congress in 2002, is seen as a ‘bizarre symbol.’
    The Hague
    In 2002, Congress passed a law enabling United States forces to unilaterally storm into peaceful Holland to liberate American soldiers held for war crimes.
    Coming in the early days of the war on terrorists, and as the International Criminal Court was being formed here, the measure provoked controversy and seemed to the Dutch – stout US allies – an absurd example of America’s “with us or against us” foreign policy.
    The law is still on the books.

    Formally titled the American Service Members Protection Act, the measure is widely and derisively known here as the Invasion of The Hague Act.
    Odd as it may seem, the law allows the US to constitutionally send jack-booted commandos to fly over fields of innocent tulips, swoop into the land of wooden shoes, tread past threatening windmills and sleepy milk cows into the Dutch capital – into a city synonymous with international law – and pry loose any US troops.
    Today, the Dutch mostly treat the issue as a joke, a cowboy American moment. But it is widely felt that if President Barack Obama‘s foreign policy team wants to achieve a symbolic break with the previous White House, it could rescind the invasion law.
    As a Dutch Ministry of Justice official put it, “I wouldn’t overstate how seriously we take this any more, but it does seem a bizarre symbol.”
    ‘Invasion Act’ had little legal basis
    In 2002, Dutch diplomat Harold DeWitt wrote to colleagues: “We are quite alarmed to hear about the impending invasion of the Netherlands. Our military is on high alert. We would really value you forwarding any news and relevant information as soon as it comes to your attention and, in particular, as it regards the timing. I would like to be able to notify my superiors … prior to any invasion.”
    The act was passed in the time between the Afghan and Iraqi wars. Pentagon officials wanted to avoid war crimes arrests by an untested world court – a body they feared might make anti-American political statements, rather than stick to its legal knitting.
    In retrospect, jurists say, US officials over-read the power of the court. Under basic ICC rules called “complementarity,” the ICC is powerless to prosecute war crimes the US is willing to investigate.
    “The argument for The Hague Act was always very weak,” says Mark Ellis, head of the International Bar Association in London. “Under the ICC statutes, if soldiers’ [are charged with] war crimes, all the US has to say is that it is undertaking a good faith effort to investigate. That automatically sets aside ICC jurisdiction.”
    In the past six years, no US soldiers have been indicted by the ICC; and in cases such as Abu Ghraib, the US military has been willing to investigate.
    In The Hague, the fury has subsided.
    “The Dutch were a little bit offended. We consider ourselves the legal capital of the world, and your major ally not only threatens you, but tries to blackmail you,” says Max van Weezel, a well-known political columnist and author. “If the Obama administration can reverse this law, we Dutch would think the Americans are becoming a little bit normal again. But I don’t know if he can.”

    That sounds just like some thing Putin would do.

    http://www.veteranstoday.com/2013/01...riminal-court/





    We the people of the Netheland's lost 198 persons, this is terrible tragic affair. With our population of 16,000,000 it means that nearly everybody here knows some one who died.

    The EU will take sanctions, and there will be an inquiry, but like back in 1988 when a US warship destroyed a Iranian airliner killing civilians, the real murders will not be punished.
     
  21. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

    Joined:
    May 18, 2008
    #21
    Which ever great boogeyman we can convince our public exists.
     
  22. impulse462 macrumors 68000

    impulse462

    Joined:
    Jun 3, 2009
    #22
    Not sure, but I wouldn't expect them to do nothing, and I now I know they have been doing something about it

    What did I say to give you that impression?
     
  23. PBG4 Dude macrumors 68020

    PBG4 Dude

    Joined:
    Jul 6, 2007
    #23
    OMG, I was going to be a MLRS operator in the 80s, except a medical issue kept them from letting me join. I remember the 13x designator (and MLRS) from the contract I signed.
     
  24. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

    Joined:
    Jan 4, 2002
    Location:
    CT
    #24
    Putin doesn't care about small sanctions. He will keep doing what he is doing because nobody has stopped him. It's like telling your kid don't do that anymore, and then walking away while the kid just does it anyway.
     
  25. lannister80 macrumors 6502

    lannister80

    Joined:
    Apr 7, 2009
    Location:
    Chicagoland
    #25
    NATO

    10char
     

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