Poll: Majority mistrustful of upcoming Iraq report

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Thomas Veil, Aug 19, 2007.

  1. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #1
    Apparently our minds are made up. And that's not necessarily a bad thing.

    See Enn Enn

    You almost have to laugh: Americans have become so distrustful of the Bush administration that apparently Dubya, Cheney, Tony Snow and that entire gang can talk until they're blue in the face and nobody will believe them. It'd be funny if it wasn't so utterly pathetic.

    Oh...and Tony Snow comes across as an ass again. :rolleyes:
     
  2. ham_man macrumors 68020

    ham_man

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    #2
    And Democrats get on Republicans for ignoring the truth...?
     
  3. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #3
    What truth would are you accusing Democrats of ignoring?
     
  4. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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  5. ham_man macrumors 68020

    ham_man

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    #5
  6. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #6


    Also from the NYT:

    The Iraqis need to deal with it by themselves. We're about as useful and as effective as a bull in a china shop.
     
  7. SC68Cal macrumors 68000

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    #7
    Kenneth M. Pollack has his own axe to grind. He wrote a book justifying the cause for going to war in Iraq, after all. "The Threatening Storm: The Case for Invading Iraq"

    An Op-Ed piece, by a biased author != Fact.

    Nobody bothers to check sources anymore. You just google and paste and and think you can win an argument.
     
  8. Thomas Veil thread starter macrumors 68020

    Thomas Veil

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    #8
    Let me put it this way. Even given the generous assumption that this is true, why would the public be so doubtful? Because we've all heard this song and dance before. Many times. Every three months, almost like clockwork, it's been, "Things are getting better in Iraq. Just be patient."

    And let's not forget the insurgents who were in their final throes...a year and a half ago.

    Come on. You get conned by somebody once, shame on them. You get conned multiple times...you can't get fooled again. Or something.
     
  9. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #9
    Isn't that the op-ed that was floating around for awhile before widely being dismissed as inaccurate at best? That had no proof to back up it's assertions, the reality being the contrary? That the authors themselves are back pedaling from? That article? What else you got?

    The problem isn't ignoring the truth, obviously. We're just tired of hearing the same song and dance from the same people who got us into this mess in the first place. The same things they've been saying for how long now? It's a lose-lose situation for them for a reason. He can't say things are going bad, as we know they are, because then it would wreck what little the admin has left. If he does, it's all over. If he says things are going well, we won't believe him because we know it isn't true, no matter what the administration tries to say. Especially since they're the ones writing the report, based on his assessment, that we weren't even supposed to hear because it was all going to be behind closed doors.

    This is just another delay tactic, and we've been sick of it for a long time now.
     
  10. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #10
    Since we've already heard that the report will be written by the White House, why would anyone believe it anyway? Might as well be co-authored by Dr Pangloss and Hans Christian Andersen.
     
  11. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #11
    At least from your armchair, you can speak authoritatively on the status of the surge.
     
  12. Ugg macrumors 68000

    Ugg

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    #12
    Is the truth more readily visible from your ivory tower?
     
  13. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #13
    Another drive-by insult, courtesy of a member of the 101st Fighting Keyboardists...

    The surge was supposed to provide breathing room so that Iraq's political reconciliation could occur. You seen any evidence of that? I see a game of whack-a-mole going on. Sure there's progress in one hole, but that's 'cause they all just packed up and went to a different area to cause trouble. And even those areas where you can point to a decrease in violence aren't evidence of the political goals this surge was supposed to produce.

    Oh, and O'Hanlon and Pollack are hardly opponents of the war. Although I'm sure the news sources you use didn't mention that, right? They were shepherded around by the military, never outside the Green Zone for more than 4-6 hours at a time, and a third person who went with them saw things quite differently.

    And just FYI - that piece you link to is from the opinion section. Not the news section. I know Rush and Hannity and all the other righty bloviators from McCain to Darth Dick have been hailing this as "news" that provides evidence that the surge is a smashing success, but it's really not.
     
  14. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    #14
    Those who oppose the surge- you'd like it to work wouldn't you?

    How long would you give to see if the surge really is working?
     
  15. miloblithe macrumors 68020

    miloblithe

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    #15
    Do you see what the issue is here for people who don't trust the administration? If you allow the administration to require that we give each new strategy more and more time to work and then allow then to switch strategies when each one is implausible to call a success, this administration will never be accountable and will not make any move to reduce the US military presence in Iraq. It all just seems like delay tactics to pass the buck.

    We've given this strategy more than half a year, and so far the two main results seem to be increased US fatalities and a deteriorating Iraqi political situation.
     
  16. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #16
    But hey, as long as we're posting opinion pieces...
     
  17. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #17
    As much time as Bush said it would take to see progress when he announced the surge? Would that be fair?
     
  18. SC68Cal macrumors 68000

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    #18
    Didn't he say back in January that we would see progress by now? It just seems that as time goes on he changes where the finish line is. Now it's just a "snapshot", soon it'll be "forget about it"
     
  19. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #19
    And of course it isn't working, but Bush will try to say it is working and he just needs more time- again. :rolleyes:
     
  20. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #20
    We're still there. Things continue to get worse. There's still no exit strategy. It ain't working.

    Ask anyone who's been there who doesn't have a political agenda, who isn't heavily escorted through the green zone, and they'll tell you the same.

    That was a loaded question, but I'll bite.

    Of course. We would have liked it to have been over and done with years ago, with us winning. Some of us would have rather focused on the real terrorists in the 'stans before even thinking of going elsewhere. With better reasons that didn't turn out to be false. It's not our fault the administration lost the war. Which they are losing. We don't want to lose, we don't want people continuing to die. Duh! But some of us question the reasoning and see things for what they are, what they have been. A mess. And we're tired of the same people who screwed things up telling us they're fixing it, only to tell us the same thing later, and still wanting more time. You can't blame us for years of them saying things are getting better while we all we see is them progressively get worse.

    Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice... can't get fooled again.

    4 years ago.

    How much longer are you willing to give it until we admit we aren't getting anywhere?
     
  21. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #21
    That's where you are wrong. My problem is that I do base my opinion on personal discussions with troops that have been over there rather than the NYT or other "media" sources. The bottom line is that the improvements outweigh the setbacks, so progress is being made.

    There is an exit strategy, it's just that neither the press nor the public have been paying attention. We stabilize the democratically elected government, train their security forces and then gradually withdraw. What do you want, a spiral bound report with the details spelled out along with pictures?
     
  22. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #22
    We must be talking to different soldiers and the ones I talk to must be biased, because that's not what the ones I know are telling me. They're telling me the exact opposite. They say we should get the hell out and not waste another American life. One of the guys is a 20 year vet retiring soon. I'll take his assessment. He's also a heart surgen, so he's no dummy.
     
  23. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

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    #23
    Hi, I'm just curious. In the US, do you always get in the news when there's a bomb in Iraq, or only when it involves american casualties? I don't want to start a fire about this, it's not provocation, I'm just curious. For instance, I usually read online three newspapers: El Pais (Spanish, left), El Mundo (Spanish, right) and Le Monde (French, center) and they always report this kind of news at the same time. I don't have a TV, and I don't listen the radio very often, so I don't know about other media.
     
  24. imac/cheese macrumors 6502a

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    #24
    I think it is interesting that 43% of the people feel the report will actually be trustworthy. Seeing as the president's and congress's approval ratings are far below 43%, it seems some people still trust the government without approving of them.
     
  25. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #25
    Indeed, and isn't it shameful that I seem to be able to understand the futility and wrongheadedness of the whole fiasco better than the people in the Green Zone?

    As for wishing it to fail, you're absolutely right: I want this illegal, criminal and barbarous exercise to end in abject failure, so that it will be many years before any other arrogant, ideologically misguided f*ckwit like your so-called President can even contemplate hijacking your armed forces and the goodwill of the world to pursue his personal agenda at the expense of half a million lives and the stability of an entire region.
     

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