Poor Obama

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Desertrat, Feb 21, 2009.

  1. Desertrat macrumors newbie

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    #1
    Seems like every time I read the news, there's some sort of problem with one of his appointees. Now, it's Napolitano at Homeland Security.

    http://www.foxnews.com/politics/first100days/2009/02/20/napolitano-violence-mexico-spilling-border/

    "Napolitano acknowledged Thursday that violence in Mexico "has risen to very high levels." But she said that although the U.S. is planning for the potential for violence to move north across the border, it hasn't happened yet."

    Next we have:

    http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/nation/la-na-drug-kidnappings12-2009feb12,0,1264800.story

    "Arizona has become the new drug gateway into the United States. Roughly half of all marijuana seized along the U.S.-Mexico border was taken on the state's 370-mile border with Mexico.

    One result is an epidemic of kidnapping that many residents are barely aware of. Indeed, most every other crime here is down. But police received 366 kidnapping-for-ransom reports last year, and 359 in 2007. Police estimate twice that number go unreported."
    ____________________

    Didn't Napolitano hold a rather high office in Arizona? :) Privy to all manner of information? But up to a thousand kidnappings among Arizona's Mexican drug people is not a problem of violence? I guess that if not many people are aware of a problem, there is not a problem.

    While the people of Arizona are probably happy she's gone, odds are that they'd prefer she was in a different agency. Preferably the Department of Winds, Waves and Tides.

    What does Obama do, to find these creatures? Go to Drudge, each morning, and click on "Reuters Odd"?
     
  2. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #2
    Sounds to me like you'd rather just go out there and shoot them yourself.
     
  3. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #3
    I'm not interested in shooting anybody; maybe that's your idea of a solution. But to get back to the thread, my concern is the denial of an obvious problem, the pretense that it does not exist--although it existed two years before her appointment.
     
  4. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #4
    Ummm, you may have never lived in Arizona so I would A) appreciate you not hypothesizing what Arizonan's think or feel, and B) when she was governor here this was a big deal on her agenda. She did fight for this stuff she is now fighting for in the DHS.

    There is also a problem that the federal government has to do something about the borders which were not being done under Bush's watch. I'm fine with the agency she is in. She is fully aware of the immigration problems that this country faces...
     
  5. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #5
    Hey jon, we agree on something! I was actually sad to see her go, not because I thought she would make a poor DHS Secretary, but because her leaving left Brewer in charge with a powerful Republican state legislature.

    Napolitano acted like an adult about the border situation in the face of an incredibly childish state Republican party. Right now Brewer is dealing with the budget problems, but I hope she too acts like an adult when the legislature gets around to having a tantrum about it.
     
  6. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #6
    OMG, where has the world gone that we can agree on something... :eek: :p j/k

    I didn't think Napolitano was a bad governor. I think she did a not so bad job and I hope she does a good job in the DHS. And I am not up on what Brewer is doing but I do know that she is pretty pissed on how Arizona's economy has been handled by the legislature.
     
  7. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #7
    I agree about Napolitano. I don't think she was a great governor, but she wasn't a complete failure either. Brewer did surprise me by suggesting that we might have to raise taxes to balance the budget, since huge cuts to education won't fill the gap and are a terrible mistake. She mentioned putting tax increases to a vote to the Arizonan people, but the state legislature is opposing it. I don't know why. If we (the people of the state) want to raise taxes rather than cut more education, health, or safety programs, then the legislature should not stand in our way.
     
  8. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #8
    I won't be able to make this but I am a member of Arizonans Against Proposed Education Budget Cuts on Facebook. On March 4th they are having a rally at the state capitol to try and pursued our great legislature that cutting education is not the way to go.. I am willing to pay more taxes than cut an already hurting education system...
     
  9. millerj123 macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    Napolitano was no Mecham or Symington for sure. ;-)

    Brewer just scares the hell out of me. Lets go from being near the bottom compared to other states to being the dead last bottom. Great.
     
  10. it5five macrumors 65816

    it5five

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    #10
    Yeah, I don't get that. We're already near last for education funding, and they want to cut it even more? It was a huge disappointment to see all day Kindergarten go, and the cuts to the universities will be devastating. I'm graduating from ASU this December and I'm glad I'm getting out of here before things get really really bad.

    You know, I think you're right. As far as governors of Arizona go, Napolitano was incredible. We've had more governors convicted while still in office than any other state (sorry IL, most of yours are convicted after they leave office).
     
  11. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #11
    You know 'Rat, these crocodile tears of yours would be far more believable if you had been in here waving around sensational headlines every time Bush some Bush appointee got caught saying something stupid. There were an awful lot of those. Hell, for years we were told the war was going great, and the economy was healthy and sound. And yet you never once came in here shedding tears this large -- right up until January 20th of this year for some odd reason. I'm sure that's a purely coincidental date; however.

    You don't happen to have a link to the full transcript of the Napolitano interview, do you? It's not that I don't believe FOXNews, of course. It's not like they'd ever deliberately take a quote out of context to make a Democrat or liberal look bad, I know; but I just like to see the primary evidence myself.

    I mean, if she's horse-lawyer stupid, let's get her out of there. But the people of Arizona seem to hold her in reasonably high regard. I'm guessing they have a good reason. Hell, McCain is just happy she's not going to be available to run against him next time around. Polls were showing her winning against the GOPs Golden Boy.
     
  12. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #12
    "...some Bush appointee got caught saying something stupid. There were an awful lot of those."

    Yes, there were. No doubt. But we were promised "change" and I'm not seeing any change. Same "saying something stupid". Same venal sorts of appointees. Same monetary policies.

    And I rather doubt that Fox News reporters were the only ones at the press conference/interview/whatever. The cite might not have been important to other reporters; I don't know. If I find another cite, I'll post it.

    The fact remains that kidnappings among Mexican drug folks is a serious problem in violence in Phoenix and has been for two years, per the cops and the LA Times. Why would she ever say anything remotely resembling what was reported? How could any rational comment be turned 180 degrees?

    Edit-add: Rude, gross and impolite commentary, but multiple sources. http://www.wikio.com/politics/gover...artment_of_homeland_security/janet_napolitano
     
  13. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #13
    You are right we were promised changed, and that guy up in the White House did not deliver change in his first month, so let's condemn him.. Come on, Bush did nothing in his first year as President, it wasn't until 9/11 when he started making change, and unfortunately this country has gone down hill ever since.

    It's a serious problem in Phoenix, San Diego, LA, Texas, Georgia, as far up as Montana according to another thread in this forum where 2 illegals broke into a house and they were shot by an 11 year old girl, lord knows what they would have done if she was not a champion skeet shooter.

    But let's also condemn Nepolitano because she's from Arizona where a lot of illegals come into. Not buying your view on this, sorry...
     
  14. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #14
    jonbravo77, the condemnation has nothing to do with her being from Arizona, per se. It has to do with denial of a known problem. And the commentary has nothing to do with the influx of illegals. It has to do with the violent crime of kidnapping.

    You say, "You are right we were promised changed, and that guy up in the White House did not deliver change in his first month, so let's condemn him."

    Are you telling me that I should ignore the tax cheats? The going-back on the "I won't hire any lobbyists!" of the campaign trail? I'm supposed to operate on a, "Give him time, he'll clean up his act," deal?

    'Rat
     
  15. Salavat23 macrumors 6502

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    #15
    The entire time he was campaigning, he said that he had great judgment.

    Well now it turns out he is a hypocrite, as many of his picks were horrible decisions. If he can't even pick the right people for the job, what makes you think he can make the right decisions in tough situations?
     
  16. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #16
    You're right, and it just occurred to me. Because I to am a little cynical of the choices that have been made so far. And it's not because I think he's lied, I thinks it's because we got so shafted by the last president and his crooks he put into high positions i.e.: Cheney, Rove, Gonzales that it doesn't matter what the new guy does, he will be compared to the crap that we dealt with for the last 8 years.

    I'm not saying Obama has done just an outstanding job so far, what I am saying is that he's been in office for a month. I am not going to expect him to make all the right choices right off the bat, no other president has made outstanding choices right off the bat. I also expect congress to be very leery of the choice of people that are made due to the above crap I mentioned with Bush.

    But as I said, let's just count the guy out for making a few mistakes which he admitted to on National TV. Let's just say "well, it's been a month and the guy sucks" which is pretty much what you are implying. Let's remember there are a lot of factors that go into picking someone for cabinet and it's not just throwing a dart at some pictures and hope the person turns out. At least the people Obama had picked are actually qualified for the jobs he put them in, and it is a shame that they turned out to have some bad baggage and can not fulfill the job. And at least we are finding out about their past indiscretions before they are in office and not after like the Arabian Horse guy Brown who was in charge of FEMA during Katrina.

    That's just the sad part, no one disputes the qualifications of these people, it's the tax thing that caused them to bow down from the nomination. And I am not down playing the tax situation, it is a big deal. But they were qualified for the positions.
     
  17. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #17
    Exactly- at least now we have a President who owns up to his mistakes and tries to fix them. How refreshing.
     
  18. Marble macrumors 6502a

    Marble

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    #18
    Me and most other Arizonans I know thought she was a reliable governor. As you can see, many of us are sad to see her go.
     
  19. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #19
    Anyone who bought into the "change" bit hook line and sinker needs their head examined. Politicians say things like that all the time. Bush promised to be "a uniter, not a divider", right? Where were you all these years whining that you really really thought Bush meant that, and you were horribly disappointed that he hadn't united the nation within a month of his election (or ever after)? Exactly. You didn't care about that -- or any of his other promises. Remember the humble foreign policy pledge? Or the "no nation building" pledge? You never complained once about Bush's broken campaign promises, yet sometime right around noon Eastern on 1/21/09, that all changed.

    Obama was the lesser of two weevils. Same as always. Anyone who thought he was going to bring radical change to the WH -- well, I've know a guy named Madoff you should talk to about your investments.

    Why would she say anything remotely resembling what was reported? Well, what if the question was about the political assasainations going on in Mexico? What if the question was about the particularly horrible methods of execution the narcos are employing? AFAIK, that type of violence has yet to make it's way across the border. That's why it's important to see the quote in context.
     
  20. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #20
    In context? WHAT? That is a concept not known by a lot of people... :eek: Well, I did think that Obama was going to bring change and I do hope that he still does. But, I knew that it was not going to happen right off the bat, and I do agree that if you think it's going to happen in 30, 60, 90 days or even his first year then people need to step back and really evaluate a few things about politics. And I know that people will try to bring Clinton back into this, but go back to that time and really look and learn what was going on in the world in his presidency, not to much. There were a couple of pitfalls in the world here and there but the economy wasn't to bad, Saddam was quiet and Clinton didn't really do all that much.. But Bush on the other hand "the great divider" did a whole lot after a year and a half into his presidency. If you look at 2000-2001 (before 9/11) Bush didn't do crap.
     
  21. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #21
    Context shmontext. What I'm griping about is that there's no particular change in behavior or policy. Sure, there's a lot of BS in campaigns. I'm used to that. But folks kept telling me, over and over, "He's different, and you'll see."

    Okay: No lobbyists will be hired. Wrong. Competent, honest people appointed? Er, uh, tax cheats and now Napolitano. From the MSM, just today:

    http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/2009-02-22-mexicoborder_N.htm

    "That's bad news in broad swaths of the USA, where Mexican drug gangs have extended their operations to at least 230 cities from Texas to Alaska, according to a recent Justice Department report. Police in Atlanta and Phoenix, both major drug transit points, have blamed a wave of kidnappings on the spreading turf war among the cartels. Drug-related violence has become ever more brazen and frequent, including a rise in attacks on Border Patrol agents."

    If a little peon like me knows this stuff, how does somebody at the center of information flow not know?

    Folks, this ain't any Dem/Repub thing, no lib/conserv thing. It's about the quailities of those in power, tied to people's belief in what was said about this new administration insofar as its behavior and its policies.

    'Rat
     
  22. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #22
    No particular change in behavior or policy? Apologies, but B effing S.

    This is politics 'Rat. It's just the way things work -- as you so often informed us when Bush was in power. Ain't no sense getting all worked up over it.

    Hey, I just call 'em like I see 'em. :D
     
  23. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #23
    "This is politics 'Rat. It's just the way things work."

    IOW, business as usual; no change. :D:D:D

    To get at least halfway-serious for a moment, I look at what he's trying with monetary policy, and I still think it's doomed to failure. And that, really, is where I sort of shake my head and think, "That poor bastard..." (And I'm not meaning it as any aspersion on parentage; it's the ancient phrase about somebody in trouble.) I said during the campaign that I thought his fundamental ideas were wrong, and I think he's getting a tremendous amount of bad advice from the Keynesian claque.

    Forget blaming anybody for anything in particular: We got into this mess from over-spending on a world-wide level. Not just the U.S., but all over the world. Spending a ton of money more, now, just flat-out can't re-start an unproductive economy. Short-term palliative effects, yeah--but there's the unavoidable loss in buying power of that same money. What worries me is the possibility of a consumer price inflation that's worse than the 1970s.

    And if you think I'm a pessimist, check out http://www.kunstler.com . Compared to him, I'm Pollyanna.

    'Rat
     
  24. Desertrat thread starter macrumors newbie

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    #24
    NT1440, what I'm saying is that there are many contributors to this mess. It's a waste of time to talk about who done what, particularly when those are already fairly well identified. What to me is important is to look at the fundamental causes and try to figure out ways to avoid a repeat.

    A contributary fundamental was the Community Reinvestment Act, which obviously had good intentions. After all, when the income tax was first instituted, it was held that home ownership was a Good Thing, to be preferred over renting. Interest on home loans was made deductible, from the git-go. So, why waste time blaming Carter-era folks for trying to do good?

    Easy credit and loose money always leads to consumer price inflation. But, it helps the paper economy expand and creates jobs, so folks have more money to spend--even though the money continually buys less. But it's pointless to blame past Congresses and Fed actions which contributed to loose money. They were doing good by helping the economy expand.

    And such things have continued right on down to the present time.

    Hey, since WW II, the national motto has been, "We gotta GROW!" Yeah, well, okay, that's what one cancer cell said to his neighbor.

    Obama has said that he's aware that FDR's and Japan's efforts didn't work--but he also said that the reason is that they didn't spend large enough amounts soon enough. Okay, so he's spending a helluva lot more, and at a much faster rate. That's what his financial advisors are telling him to do.

    The reason I don't think it will work is that debt is being created beyond any way to repay it. The inflation of the money supply will lead to a very high rate of consumer price inflation, particularly for food and fuel. That won't rescue an economy.

    Summary of fundamental causes? IMO, it's too much societal effort in creating a nice, warm, snuggly world of no hazard--for each and every member of the population. A national "Do-good-itis" carried way too far during this last sixty years.

    Solution? Damfino. A helluva lot of knowledgeable folks say there isn't any, that we're gonna have to start some completely new financial system, worldwide. So far, however, the G7 bunch doesn't seem to know at all what it might come to be.
     
  25. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #25
    Do you have a link to where Obama has said FDRs efforts didn't work? I have not seen that.
     

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