popcorn time being criminally prosecuted

grandM

macrumors 65816
Original poster
Oct 14, 2013
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So in Belgium government is going to outlaw popcorn time and prosecute the users. Can they do so easily? I mean technically?
 
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mudslag

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Oct 18, 2010
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Need more info, post a link to an article or any other relevant information.
 

Happybunny

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Sep 9, 2010
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Popcorn Time ís net Netflix. Met één groot verschil: bij Popcorn Time betaal je niks.



It’s a Torrent site, it has better a choice than Netflix, plus newer movies, and best of all it’s FREE.:cool:

http://popcorn-time-free.com
 
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pdjudd

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Jun 19, 2007
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Yea, so if it is a torrent site and it’s hosting illegal content (which it sounds very much like what it is), my guess is that the government has every right to go after users that violate and infringe on copyright. I assume that Belgium has laws comelier to the US that dictate copyright infringement and content piracy that would subject you to fines.

If so, then they are well within their powers.
 

grandM

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Oct 14, 2013
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Need more info, post a link to an article or any other relevant information.
here you go: article

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Yea, so if it is a torrent site and it’s hosting illegal content (which it sounds very much like what it is), my guess is that the government has every right to go after users that violate and infringe on copyright. I assume that Belgium has laws comelier to the US that dictate copyright infringement and content piracy that would subject you to fines.

If so, then they are well within their powers.
You must know that in the same country a warrior of ISIS walked free out of court. He has an awesome lawyer...
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
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Yea, so if it is a torrent site and it’s hosting illegal content (which it sounds very much like what it is), my guess is that the government has every right to go after users that violate and infringe on copyright. I assume that Belgium has laws comelier to the US that dictate copyright infringement and content piracy that would subject you to fines.

If so, then they are well within their powers.
I would add that I have no tolerance for content theft. Just watch the credits of any major motion picture. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people who worked on that film. If the torrent model prevailed, and people could watch these movies for free, how would the movie industry recoup the cost to make them?
 

braddick

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Jun 28, 2009
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I would add that I have no tolerance for content theft. Just watch the credits of any major motion picture. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people who worked on that film. If the torrent model prevailed, and people could watch these movies for free, how would the movie industry recoup the cost to make them?
By selling $9. popcorn and $5. sodas?
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
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All of which are 100% optional and have little to nothing to do with the money the studios make which are not generated by concession sales. Concession sales benefit the theatre owner and not the movie maker.

The movie studios make their money by you legally purchasing a ticket to that movie or a sale (license) to that movie. Concessions do nothing unless the studio owns the theatre chains which they mostly do not.
 

zin

macrumors 6502
May 5, 2010
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United Kingdom
The original Popcorn Time was already discontinued due to pressure by the Motion Picture Association of America. This story of Belgium taking action is actually quite old.

This did nothing but encourage a few other developers to begin hosting their own versions of Popcorn Time.

Governments and movie studios will never learn, movie studios in particular. It seems they are still dragging their feet and being stubborn by being too slow to evolve in the digital world.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
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Governments and movie studios will never learn, movie studios in particular. It seems they are still dragging their feet and being stubborn by being too slow to evolve in the digital world.
What do you think movie studios should do?
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
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Indeed. In a rights based business they just can’t release everything day one online in every country for low cost. It’s just not going to happen that way. There are way too many factors that come into play. Content distribution is an extremely complicated business to work with when you look into a global market.

ETA: Of course at the same time, they have to protect their content just like any other IP owner. Just by the basic description it sounds like just the think Hollywood would and should attack.
 

zin

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May 5, 2010
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What do you think movie studios should do?
I think they should start accepting that we live in a globalised economy where people won't tolerate being treated differently to others.

I think they should engage in fairer pricing arrangements. There is no reason why digital prices of their products should vary significantly across developed countries. European prices compared to U.S. prices are not accounted for when considering exchange rates and taxes.

I think they should speed up their licensing arrangements. There is no reason why a television show or a movie released in the U.S. should be delayed by an additional few months for release in international markets, particularly English speaking ones. Movie studios are known for being stubborn and arrogant when negotiating licensing in international markets.

If I am waiting for a new song to be released, it doesn't release first on the American iTunes Store and then, a couple of months later, on the European iTunes Stores. There is no reason why this can't be the same for other content.

I think they should stop putting anti-piracy messages and adverts for their other films, that usually can't be skipped, on their DVDs.

I also think that the movie studios should stop trying to lecture people on the morality of file sharing when they are guilty of using very creative accounting practices for the purposes of avoiding taxes.

Note, I don't support organised file sharing and I'll be honest that most of the above points don't apply to me because I am reasonably content with my Netflix and Amazon subscriptions, along with access to free television streaming from the broadcasters here in the UK.

But I can understand why many people do turn to services like Popcorn Time.

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Indeed. In a rights based business they just can’t release everything day one online in every country for low cost. It’s just not going to happen that way. There are way too many factors that come into play. Content distribution is an extremely complicated business to work with when you look into a global market.
Of course it's possible. The movie studios simply make it impossible.

If the music industry can distribute new albums all over the world across one week, just as they do now, then there is no reason why the film industry can not do it. And even the music industry is considering a single unified global release day.
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
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Plymouth, MN
Of course it's possible. The movie studios simply make it impossible.

If the music industry can distribute new albums all over the world across one week, just as they do now, then there is no reason why the film industry can not do it. And even the music industry is considering a single unified global release day.
Movie production and music production are two totally different markets. You simply cannot compare the two together.
 

zin

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May 5, 2010
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Movie production and music production are two totally different markets. You simply cannot compare the two together.
We live in the 21st century. It is not impossible for a movie studio to make the proper arrangements for a one-week global rollout of a film. Nothing is going to convince me that it's that much more difficult compared to how the music industry does it.

Nothing is even stopping them from offering same-day release streaming to the comfort of your armchair at a fair price. A lot of people have grown out of the novelty of the cinema. Why won't they offer this service?

The technology and the distribution infrastructure is there. The willingness is not.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors 604
Oct 27, 2009
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We live in the 21st century. It is not impossible for a movie studio to make the proper arrangements for a one-week global rollout of a film. Nothing is going to convince me that it's that much more difficult compared to how the music industry does it.

Nothing is even stopping them from offering same-day release streaming to the comfort of your armchair at a fair price. A lot of people have grown out of the novelty of the cinema. Why won't they offer this service?

The technology and the distribution infrastructure is there. The willingness is not.
This is so true, and reminds me of the music industry's reluctance to get with the times back when Napster was the dominate music piracy machine.

I think many would be more than happy to pay for a new release at home vs some screener or cam piracy, if it means not visiting the cinema. But without that choice, many will continue to pirate new releases because advertising is so damn good and gets people very anticipated to watch.

Not saying piracy is right. But let's not dismiss reality.
 

samiwas

macrumors 68000
Aug 26, 2006
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Just watch the credits of any major motion picture. There are hundreds, if not thousands of people who worked on that film. If the torrent model prevailed, and people could watch these movies for free, how would the movie industry recoup the cost to make them?
Pretty sure no one is arguing that free distribution of all movies should be the future. Obviously not sustainable.

I think they should start accepting that we live in a globalised economy where people won't tolerate being treated differently to others.

I think they should engage in fairer pricing arrangements. There is no reason why digital prices of their products should vary significantly across developed countries. European prices compared to U.S. prices are not accounted for when considering exchange rates and taxes.

I think they should speed up their licensing arrangements. There is no reason why a television show or a movie released in the U.S. should be delayed by an additional few months for release in international markets, particularly English speaking ones. Movie studios are known for being stubborn and arrogant when negotiating licensing in international markets.

If I am waiting for a new song to be released, it doesn't release first on the American iTunes Store and then, a couple of months later, on the European iTunes Stores. There is no reason why this can't be the same for other content.

I think they should stop putting anti-piracy messages and adverts for their other films, that usually can't be skipped, on their DVDs.

I also think that the movie studios should stop trying to lecture people on the morality of file sharing when they are guilty of using very creative accounting practices for the purposes of avoiding taxes.

Note, I don't support organised file sharing and I'll be honest that most of the above points don't apply to me because I am reasonably content with my Netflix and Amazon subscriptions, along with access to free television streaming from the broadcasters here in the UK.

But I can understand why many people do turn to services like Popcorn Time.
Being one of the people you will see listed in the credits of a big movie being released in a few months, I agree with pretty much all of this.

Movies need to make money, so everyone getting them for free is not the best option. But when the movie studio makes it so that someone living in another country has to wait for months and months after a movie's US release in order to see it, they are inviting pirates and cutting their own profit stream. They are doing it to themselves.

There's a massive market out there that they simply refuse to acknowledge.

Movie production and music production are two totally different markets. You simply cannot compare the two together.
Err, you kind of can. Make movie/make music. Negotiate rights. Use existing infrastructure to release product. Profit.

The time between the end of filming of a movie and its release can be many many months. From development to release can be years. There's no way that they can't figure out the details of release in most major countries by then.
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
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Plymouth, MN
Err, you kind of can. Make movie/make music. Negotiate rights. Use existing infrastructure to release product. Profit.

The time between the end of filming of a movie and its release can be many many months. From development to release can be years. There's no way that they can't figure out the details of release in most major countries by then.
Thats a very simplistic way of looking at the process. There is way more things involved with movie production versus music production that it should be different enough. They run and operate massively different. That makes their methods of distribution different.

The fact that they are produced products doesn’t mean that their business foundations are similar or even comparable. The complexity of film compared to movies is massively different just based on the parties involved and the scale alone.
 

samiwas

macrumors 68000
Aug 26, 2006
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Atlanta, GA
Thats a very simplistic way of looking at the process. There is way more things involved with movie production versus music production that it should be different enough. They run and operate massively different. That makes their methods of distribution different.

The fact that they are produced products doesn’t mean that their business foundations are similar or even comparable. The complexity of film compared to movies is massively different just based on the parties involved and the scale alone.
So then you are saying that there is no way these massive studios can figure out the rights even after months and years? Even after having done the same process over and over for decades? Then they will keep losing the battle. What is it someone else said? Evolve or be left behind. And for now thy are being left behind due to their unwillingness to figure out the market.
 
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Jessica Lares

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Oct 31, 2009
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Near Dallas, Texas, USA
Realistically, people can't be at two places at the same time. You are not going to be plugging a movie on French TV, when it premiered over the weekend in the US. Likewise you wouldn't be doing it the other way around.

The internet is too big and diverse to do successful advertising campaigns for films. And even though there are some people who spend a lot of time on US based websites, that is still not enough exposure to release a film successfully.

Yes, the music industry is different, but it's the same problem.
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
4,040
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Plymouth, MN
So then you are saying that there is no way these massive studios can figure out the rights even after months and years? Even after having done the same process over and over for decades? Then they will keep losing the battle. What is it someone else said? Evolve or be left behind. And for now thy are being left behind due to their unwillingness to figure out the market.
No, but the nature of how the business operates depends on regional differences that are not as prevalent in the music business. The problem is that such changes are very very difficult to overturn. The scale of change is immense and is one that will take a lot of time to change. And most of them don’t want the same changes that hit the music industry when their product is seen as much more valuable. It’s not going to be the same solution as the music industry.
 

pdjudd

macrumors 601
Jun 19, 2007
4,040
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Plymouth, MN
I agree, but it is the theater owners who pay to rent the movies. It is the rental paid on those films that allow the studios to make money.
Except that those sales don't translate to the studios. Remember conscession sales are totally voluntary and are only bought by a limited percentage of movie goers. Tons of people just smuggle in snacks of their own or just don't buy. And you start charging the rates you propose, those numbers are just going to decrease.

Theatre owners pay a pretty fixed price for movies. It's not based on concession sales as those just go to operational costs.