Pope Francis calls abortion an ‘abominable crime’

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by jkcerda, Apr 11, 2014.

  1. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #1
    pretty strong words. anyways, what do you guys think.
     
  2. iBlazed macrumors 68000

    iBlazed

    Joined:
    Feb 27, 2014
    Location:
    New Jersey, United States
    #2
    Perhaps it's a good thing he doesn't make laws then.
     
  3. edk99 macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    May 27, 2009
    Location:
    FL
  4. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Location:
    Austin, USA
    #4
    Pro-life is still a stance that doesn't get you fired, right?

    He's welcome to have his own opinion.

    Edit: I think many agree most, not all, of abortions are an abomination.
     
  5. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

    Joined:
    May 23, 2010
    Location:
    Georgia
    #5
    The Pope is a Head of State. Vatican City is its own sovereignty. Maybe if his holiness really has an issue with it, he'll tell his flock to vote GOP. That would be the death blow to the Democrats. It'll never happen but it would be a shocker.
     
  6. Shrink macrumors G3

    Shrink

    Joined:
    Feb 26, 2011
    Location:
    New England, USA
    #6
    I can see where this will be a uniquely interesting, original, and non-repititious discussion. I'm sure that the same folks will not repeat the same arguments issued ten thousand times before here on PRSI.

    I can't wait for the new, fresh, original discussion to start.



    :rolleyes:
     
  7. AustinIllini macrumors demi-god

    AustinIllini

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2011
    Location:
    Austin, USA
    #7
    Agreed. No one is wrong, this is differing opinions. Unlike the gay rights thing, there's no right or wrong, just a lot of disagreement.

    [/thread]
     
  8. TSE macrumors 68030

    Joined:
    Jun 25, 2007
    Location:
    St. Paul, Minnesota
    #8
    Unlike other silly arguments, abortion is a very debatable topic, I feel. It really just depends on when you believe life is created, and there's no way to prove either way.
     
  9. citizenzen macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Mar 22, 2010
    #9
    Not being Catholic, I don't care what the Pope thinks about this.
     
  10. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Location:
    The Mergui Archipelago
    #10
    I think the catholic church is an anachronistic abomination that needs aborting.
     
  11. APlotdevice, Apr 11, 2014
    Last edited: Apr 11, 2014

    APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

    Joined:
    Sep 3, 2011
    #11
    The thing is that it's not just the life of the fetus that must be considered, but also that of the mother. For instance my own mother received an abortion after one of the two twins she was carrying died in the womb, making it quite dangerous to try and carry the other one to term.

    Arguments can certainly be made about whether it is right to use abortion simply as a means of birth control, but bans and severe restrictions on the practice put woman's lives at risk!
     
  12. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #12
    plenty of Christians seem to feel that way. NOT calling/implying you are Christian, simply making an observation.

    ----------

    at conception is when life begins, VIABLE life is a completely different story, then again some claim life begins when the kids leave home :D

    just guessing here, but I would dare say most people have no issues with abortion in the cases or rape/incest/medically necessary. as a means of BC most would say is disgusting.
     
  13. .Andy macrumors 68030

    .Andy

    Joined:
    Jul 18, 2004
    Location:
    The Mergui Archipelago
    #13
    Are sperm and eggs dead?

    Most would say this is a disgusting view of women. How many women do you think would voluntarily opt to undergo incredible invasive and personal procedures instead of using other forms of cheaper, private, and readily available contraception?
     
  14. chown33 macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Aug 9, 2009
    #14
    I'll just point to my post in an earlier thread:
    http://forums.macrumors.com/showpost.php?p=18410214&postcount=342

    Here's an extract:

    ...
    Considered as living cells of human origin, I see no discernible point at which I became alive. Before fertilization, the egg and sperm cells existed and were alive. Unless you want to argue that those cells were dead (not alive), but I don't think that's a viable argument.
    ...
    Furthermore, this continuum stretches back through the conception events of my father and mother, their fathers and mothers, and so on. There is no point in the existence of my ancestors where I could realistically say there is a transition between "not alive" and "alive". There's just an unbroken stream of "aliveness" all the way back to whatever primeval thing first made the transition from "not alive" to "alive"; whether that was a deity operating on lifeless matter or just chemistry matters not.
    ...
    Focusing around the "me", as in the question "When do I suppose I became alive?", I think requires a definition of what constitutes a person or self, especially an actual as distinct from a potential person or self.

    I also think it's useful to consider a negated question, e.g. "When do I suppose there wasn't a me?". I think one of the essential characteristics of a self (sine qua non, Latin "without which not") is a working brain, i.e. a brain with neural activity.

    Without a working brain, there can be no "self", and without a self there can be no person, no "me". Note that I'm not saying that a working brain is sufficient for self-hood, only a necessity. So my answer to that negated question would be that there was definitely no actual "me" before I had a working brain. There was still something alive that was a potential "me" before I had a brain, but potentiality isn't the same as actuality.

    I think the distinction between potentiality and actuality is essential. Every sperm or egg cell has potentiality, and every such cell is also plainly "alive" (as distinct from "not alive" or "dead), but I can't see how it's sensible to call every such cell an actual person or an actual human being. Potentiality is what something can become, not what it is at a specific moment in time. So a fertilized egg, a blastula, an embryo, etc. are all potential persons under a "needs a working brain" requirement, but are not yet actual persons. I will also stipulate that each one of these potential persons is alive and of human origin.
    ...​

    In that thread, there were no replies that countered or disputed my post, nor provided an explanation of the opposing viewpoint. I was quite disappointed, because I really was hoping for a well-written reply that laid out the opposing viewpoint.
     
  15. G51989 macrumors 68030

    G51989

    Joined:
    Feb 25, 2012
    Location:
    NYC NY/Pittsburgh PA
    #15
    You clearly do not know very much about how the Catholic Church works, Catholics do not blindly follow what the Church tells them to do, nor do most of them really care what political statements the Church, or the Pope makes. They are also not " his flock ", Catholics do not worship nor do they really listen to what the Pope has to say.

    Also, I doubt Francis would ever say that, considering most of the GOP talking points are in conflict with the GOP platform.

    Lets also keep in mind that Catholics typically but not always vote Democrat by a slim margin

    [​IMG]

    Just because the GOP is Pro Choice, and so is the Church, does not make the church in line with GOP talking points, because it isn't.
     
  16. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

    Joined:
    Aug 17, 2009
    #16
    If he feels that way, the he should not have one.
     
  17. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Location:
    Fury 161
    #17
    Actually, it would be interesting, if not funny, if, for once, each one of us would take the other side of the discussion.
     
  18. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #18
    EASY for me to do, I can see the "need" for it as pointed out above & at the same time be against it if its just used as a measure of BC..
     
  19. ElectronGuru macrumors 65816

    Joined:
    Sep 5, 2013
    Location:
    Oregon, USA
    #19
    So if we accept this to be the case, what all wouldn't we be willing to do to prevent it? For example, sex education, birth control, and baby desirability*. If we knew a list of specific changes would cut the abortion rate by more than half, what is stopping us? And I don't know how effective illegality was but for the purposes of this question, lets say its not possible. What other options would we have and why wouldn't we want to implement all of them for such an important cause?

    *not sure what to call this. Basically, change society around so anyone who found themselves pregnant would want to bring the baby to term. Reduce most of the consequences of being pregnant and giving birth and having children.
     
  20. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #20
    it is a shame to see many who are against abortion are also against sex Ed and BC. I don't get it, easiest way to stop abortion is getting people educated AND provide easy access to BC.

    as a father of a girl (now 15) I did tell her that she can start having sex 5 years AFTER she gets married :D
    so far there is not BF on the scene , hope she does not make a stupid mistake because she is in "love", at the same time I remember making plenty of mistakes because I was in "love".
     
  21. MorphingDragon macrumors 603

    MorphingDragon

    Joined:
    Mar 27, 2009
    Location:
    The World Inbetween
    #21
    They don't strictly show a majority of the biological traits of life, not taken by themselves.
     
  22. juanm macrumors 65816

    juanm

    Joined:
    May 1, 2006
    Location:
    Fury 161
    #22
    The thing is, NO girl enjoys having an abortion. If you want to lower abortion rates, so it's not used a BC, spend money and time teaching real sex-ed, but it has to be a possibility, and an easy one at that.
     
  23. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #23
    never claimed they enjoyed an abortion. I do seriously doubt ALL abortions are due to rape/incest/or because they are medically necessary.
     
  24. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

    Joined:
    Jun 29, 2002
    Location:
    Republic of Ukistan
    #24
    If men could get pregnant, how different might the arguments be, I wonder?
     
  25. jkcerda thread starter macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

    Joined:
    Jun 10, 2013
    Location:
    Criminal Mexi Midget
    #25
    Them women might be against it :D
     

Share This Page