Possible New Information on New G4s

Ensign Paris

macrumors 68000
Original poster
Nov 4, 2001
1,781
0
Europe
According to MacOSRumors.com:

Faster Superdrives later this year? According to several very interesting documents emailed to us by an international Apple source, yes. The current model Swiss Army Knife of optical drives runs at 6x read/2x write for DVDs and 24x read, 8x CD-R write and 4x CD-RW write. A new version currently being tested at Apple would up virtually all of those speeds - 8X/4X for DVDs and 40X/12X/8X for CDs, respectively. Of course as with all CD drives claiming 40X speeds, real-world performance will be much lower, but it should still be significantly improved over the current 24X speed. If the timeline put forth in these documents proves accurate, we may see this new SuperDrive before the end of the year - in PowerMacs first, of course.
Still longing for more processor performance from the latest PowerMacs before you buy one? Well, if a Dual 1GHz model with 133MHz SDRAM doesn't impress you, how about a Dual 1.4GHz beast employing powerful new PowerPC 7500 processors and screamingly fast 400MHz RapidIO-compatible memory? It has taken months of digging to confirm this, but it looks like the much-hyped PPC 7500, a G4 designed to add some of the features of the G5 family, will be the centerpiece of Apple's mid-year PowerMac update. A 400MHz leap in processor clock is dramatic, but made possible by the 7500's deeper command pipelines, next-generation wiring process and modernized chip architecture. Much more on this rumor in the days and weeks ahead.
New information from one of Apple's key component suppliers suggests the company is working on a mid-sized widescreen flat panel. The new display would be roughly the same height as the company's current 17-inch model, but would be significantly wider to provide a letterbox aspect ratio for watching widescreen DVDs. It is not known whether this would replace or complement the existing standard-aspect 17-inch Studio Display, but resolution is said to be 1152x768 -- same as the Powerbook G4.


I really want a 19" Flat Screen at the same ratio as the current 17", any chance?

Anyway, it looks like good news!
 

germanknee

macrumors member
Jan 24, 2002
79
0
i don't beleive it.

i think the MPC7500 is the g5, and won't be released until mwsf jan 2003. the MPC7470 will be released mwny july 2002. i have no idea about the superdrives.
 

teabgs

macrumors 68030
Jan 18, 2002
2,853
0
behind you
Could be true

I think its possible cause this would be a significant upgrade for once. This would buy apple more time to get the G5's ready while still pumping out great computers for the time being. If this happens, AS soon as it happens I'll be placing an order.

That is if its true
 

germanknee

macrumors member
Jan 24, 2002
79
0
beej:

8xxx are imbedded processors for things like routers. 7xxx are for host machines like macintoshes. whether or not the MPC7500 is truly a generation 5 processor, apple will call it that, i think. i doubt the MPC7500 will ready to ship mid year, when they still need to release the MPC7470; and that's not happening at mwty.

MPC7470 mwny july 2002
MPC7500 mwsf jan 2003
 

AmbitiousLemon

Moderator emeritus
Nov 28, 2001
3,338
0
down in Fraggle Rock
yes the g5 is called 8500.

i think maybe what our german friend means though is that apple will release 7500s as G5s.

if this is true i think it is bad news. the superdrive part sounds possible and good but the g4 part sounds like terrible news to me. it basically tells us that apple does not expect to get a g5 out anytime soon and that they are willing to slap a few g5 features onto the g4 in order to rescue the aging chip. i think this tells us that the g4 is way past its prime and that apple has nothing to replace it with. so much so that they are willing to savenge off the g5 in order to sustain the g4. this is bad news in every respect. we get g4s on life support no g5s for a very long time and we are making any possible g5 announcement that much less of a revolution.

i sure hope this is wrong.
 

germanknee

macrumors member
Jan 24, 2002
79
0
i still think the 7500 is the g5. look at the g4: even after the apollow build they still kept it in the 74xx range. why would it jump. they we are at a 7455 in the current 1ghz pmacs. 7470 i think to be released in july. why would the not g4 not a be a 7490 or such?
 

macfreek57

macrumors 6502
Jan 1, 2002
378
0
Baton Rouge, Louisiana
Originally posted by AmbitiousLemon
yes the g5 is called 8500.

...the g4 part sounds like terrible news to me. it basically tells us that apple does not expect to get a g5 out anytime soon and that they are willing to slap a few g5 features onto the g4 in order to rescue the aging chip. i think this tells us that the g4 is way past its prime and that apple has nothing to replace it with. so much so that they are willing to savenge off the g5 in order to sustain the g4. this is bad news in every respect. we get g4s on life support no g5s for a very long time and we are making any possible g5 announcement that much less of a revolution.
why are you hating on the G4? i think it's still an excellent chip. get pissed at apple for STILL having G3's. what was it? 98 or was it 97?
 

3rdpath

macrumors 68000
timeline sounds right

i'm not sure if i agree with apple's use of a transitional "g4/5" but they need to do something. when your consumer and pro models both use the same chips and architecture there is a serious identity ( and performance) problem.

my question is: does current software have to be retooled to take advantage of the upgrades? ( rapid i/o, different ram etc). if so, i'm going to buy soon-no use waiting for a machine that my software won't take advantage of. by the time it does the real g5 will be out....and so it goes-hurry up and wait:confused:
 

MacManiac1224

macrumors regular
Oct 21, 2001
227
0
NY
G4-G5

I am not sure about this whole thing, but this is what I think: MOSR sounds about right: I don't think we are getting G5's in summer, but an updated G4, sounds about right: the Rapid I/O would be nice, also a new 400mhz bus would be nice also, at least make them comparable to P4's. The Dual 1.4's sound about right to me. We will see though.

With the G5 situation: I am not sure if Apple would actually take a powered up G4 and call it a G5, only Apple knows, but if Apple doesn't get the G5 out within at least 9 months, we might have problems, considering the AMD Hammer is going to be released in Sept, and the new Intel chip around the same time: we need something, becasue I don't know if the the G4 will be able to compete with the Hammer like it can with the Athlon. We need a 64-bit G5 Apple, can you hear me!
 

barkmonster

macrumors 68020
Dec 3, 2001
2,122
12
Lancashire
The G4 better get a hell of lot faster to compete with AMD as it stands now, the hammer will be even harder to compete with unless we get G5s around the time they're out.

Apple have never used AMD chips in any of their mac vs pc bake offs because they know the mac will lose, even in photoshop. Barefeats have posted a round up of the new G4s including the dual 1Ghz and put them up against a 1.4Ghz Athlon, guess what ? A Dual Ghz G4 is no faster than single CPU 1.4Ghz Athlon!!

here's a little preview of the 20 action photoshop test & an extra result from a 1.2Ghz overclocked dual G4:

Athlon 1.4Ghz : 49 seconds
Pentium 4 1.8Ghz : 59 seconds
Dual 1Ghz G4 : 48 seconds
Dual 1.2Ghz G4 : 40 seconds (38 under OS X)

The hammer will probably be significantly faster than the Athlon so Apple have got to do something about the speed issue or they're most powerful model won't even compete with sub £1,000 PCs, They don't compete with PCs very well to any significant margin now from the results on barefeats.
 

-=AsukA=-

macrumors member
Jan 7, 2002
46
0
Not likely..........

If any thing we will see HUGE speed increases in the summer, not 2003. Due to aples statment that they will not be uprading any chips for a while. and dont think they will go against there word, they are absolutly right the market dosent need better computer right now, and not very many will buy due to an unstable market. Wait till summer mac world,im sure we will be blown away probably from 1GHz to 1.8GHz and even a G5!
 

madamimadam

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2002
1,281
0
Originally posted by Beej
I think dual 1.4s mid year is wishful thinking.
I think not, the new chip is supposed to have more pipeline stages which, as Intel shows well, = more MHz for less gain. Taking it to 1.4GHz would be like the current jumps of 167MHz at a time.
 

rice_web

macrumors 6502a
Oct 25, 2001
584
0
Minot, North Dakota
Taking it to 1.4GHz would be like the current jumps of 167MHz at a time.
However, with RapidIO, the machine could potentially experience a 30-40% increase in speed, depending on the application. Programs that are heavily optimized for the G4 (especially OS X) would notice the biggest increases, as the Altivec unit would finally have enough bandwidth to live up to its potential (or I would hope).
 

dongmin

macrumors 68000
Jan 3, 2002
1,709
0
i have my doubts...

When was the last time Apple met or exceeded our expectations regarding processor performance in the last few years? Apple's done good in bring along software and new Mac designs but the CPU side of things have been slow at best.

My bet is for a dual 1.2 ghz machine with a new memory system. I don't know about this Rapid I/O thing; I've only been hearing about it the last six months or so which leads me to think it's still not production-ready.
 

madamimadam

macrumors 65816
Jan 3, 2002
1,281
0
Re: i have my doubts...

Originally posted by dongmin
When was the last time Apple met or exceeded our expectations regarding processor performance in the last few years? Apple's done good in bring along software and new Mac designs but the CPU side of things have been slow at best.

My bet is for a dual 1.2 ghz machine with a new memory system. I don't know about this Rapid I/O thing; I've only been hearing about it the last six months or so which leads me to think it's still not production-ready.
if what people are saying is correct, 1.2GHz would be a bit of a disappointment. At best, Apple would be falling victim to the marketing bug and forgetting that they are breading a customer base that looks past the clock speed and can see that 1.2 on the new chip would not be a flash upgrade. Then again, since they have trained me to look past the clock, I can also see that the other upgrades, like Rapid I/O would = astounding results and 1.2GHz would, as someone put it in an G5/G4 comparison, violate the current G4s.
 

gbojim

macrumors 6502
Jan 30, 2002
353
0
It seems that the biggest problem stems from not knowing a couple of details.

First - Motorola has not listed the 7500 series number in the PPC roadmap - so we don't know if that is going to be G4 or G5.

Second - we have heard a lot about the 7500 but I don't recall seeing anything about whether it is 32 or 64 bit. According to the roadmap the new pipeline, Rapid IO, etc are part of the G5, but so is the 64 bit spec.

Besides, I think the highest immediate priority is the memory interface. PC133 is killing system performance and that will not be changed in the 74xx series chips.
 

Catfish_Man

macrumors 68030
Sep 13, 2001
2,579
1
Portland, OR
1) Ram speed is limited by bus speed. To get rid of PC133, you have to have a faster bus.

2) Last I heard, RapidIO didn't support 400MHz busses, it was either 250 or 500. Has this changed, is my memory wrong, or is MOSR smoking something (as usual)?

3) With a new pipeline, a new bus, new ram, better architecture, and much higher clockspeed I think you couldn't call the 7500 a G4 anymore. That kind of improvement would take an entirely new chip.

4) Apps won't have to be reprogrammed to take advantage of it. The faster bus and higher clockspeed will just speed up existing ones.

5) 64 bit is irrelevant. It would provide only two useful increases:
5a) it would support more than 4GBs of ram
5b) it would speed up double precision FP math (mostly scientific stuff)
Other than that, it would not speed things up. The reason why MAJC, Itanium, etc... are faster is that they are massively parallel (VLIW) chips, not because they're 64 bit.
 

DNA

macrumors newbie
Jan 22, 2002
19
0
And still...

...NO ONE really seems to KNOW FOR SURE if the 8500 was ever meant to be a desktop chip or not.