MP 7,1 Post Mac Pro announcement: What are the alternatives?

[chuckidea]

I've been hanging onto my 2010 Mac Pro waiting for the announcement. I use the Adobe Creative Cloud Suite--mostly Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, and occasionally Premiere Pro--with a calibrated NEC MultiSync PA302W monitor.

Now that we know what the configurations and price of the Mac Pro will be I'm thinking it might be overkill.

What Mac products would be an alternative?

(I worry the iMac monitor won't be accurate enough for print work.)

 

[ssgbryan]

Your option is an iMac “Pro”.

Or you can join the migration to a windows box.

At the end of the day, you do your work in applications, not the OS.

My $6,000 is going into an AMD system by Velocity Micro.

It’s been a fun 18 years, but Tim’s Apple doesn’t want me as a customer.

 

[Hirakata]

Your option is an iMac “Pro”.

Or you can join the migration to a windows box.

At the end of the day, you do your work in applications, not the OS.

My $6,000 is going into an AMD system by Velocity Micro.

It’s been a fun 18 years, but Tim’s Apple doesn’t want me as a customer.

I could not agree more. Been using Macs exclusively for 25 years (started in the "Dark Days" in the '90s), and I gave Apple one last chance to get something I need with this Mac Pro. And while it's debatable whether they got the guts of this machine right (I couldn't care less how it looks on the outside), the price is definitely not right for me, which must mean I'm not what Apple considers to be a "Pro", or I'm just a little smarter with money than the Apple defined "Pro" who they believe is just going to throw cash at this thing.

I've been bootcamping into Windows 10 for the past couple of years and am ready to take the plunge, because as you say, I'm working within the applications (which for what I do are exactly the same in MacOS and Windows), and not the OS.

 

[chuckidea]

Your option is an iMac “Pro”.

Or you can join the migration to a windows box.

At the end of the day, you do your work in applications, not the OS.

My $6,000 is going into an AMD system by Velocity Micro.

It’s been a fun 18 years, but Tim’s Apple doesn’t want me as a customer.

Thank you for that.

I was a long time Windows user (since 1980s) and switched over in 2010 when I bought the Mac Pro. I REALLY like the Mac ecosystem--so much so, I'd prefer to remain there. I like the ease with which all of my devices integrate--iPhone, iPad, Mac--and in updating software, organizing files, backing up, and so on. (And I'm willing to pay a bit of a premium for it.)

I have a Velocity Micro to run some PC software and like that system too. (Haha... I'm in Richmond, Virginia where they are located so I just drove over and picked it up after I ordered it online--nice folks.)

I'm just not a fan of Windows. Apple seems, too, to have a pretty good handle on security.
[doublepost=1560175384][/doublepost]

I could not agree more. Been using Macs exclusively for 25 years (started in the "Dark Days" in the '90s), and I gave Apple one last chance to get something I need with this Mac Pro. And while it's debatable whether they got the guts of this machine right (I couldn't care less how it looks on the outside), the price is definitely not right for me, which must mean I'm not what Apple considers to be a "Pro", or I'm just a little smarter with money than the Apple defined "Pro" who they believe is just going to throw cash at this thing.

I've been bootcamping into Windows 10 for the past couple of years and am ready to take the plunge, because as you say, I'm working within the applications (which for what I do are exactly the same in MacOS and Windows), and not the OS.

Thank you for that.

Yeah, I get it, but ditto what I said to ssgbryan

I was a long time Windows user (since 1980s) and switched over in 2010 when I bought the Mac Pro. I REALLY like the Mac ecosystem--so much so, I'd prefer to remain there. I like the ease with which all of my devices integrate--iPhone, iPad, Mac--and in updating software, organizing files, backing up, and so on. (And I'm willing to pay a bit of a premium for it.)
[doublepost=1560175643][/doublepost]Haha... of course, we could say too, the new Mac Pro will cost what I paid for a IBM PC AT in 1985.

 

[krakman]

I've been hanging onto my 2010 Mac Pro waiting for the announcement. I use the Adobe Creative Cloud Suite--mostly Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, and occasionally Premiere Pro--with a calibrated NEC MultiSync PA302W monitor.

Now that we know what the configurations and price of the Mac Pro will be I'm thinking it might be overkill.

What Mac products would be an alternative?

(I worry the iMac monitor won't be accurate enough for print work.)

What is it about your current system that you find lacking?

 

[orph]

Adobe Creative Cloud Suite--mostly Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, and occasionally Premiere Pro--

you dont even need the imac pro the only app in that list that needs more than a 4c cpu is PP, depends on buget and how much and what you do in PP but any imac with high single core speed (i7 is a plus) and a good display will work.

PP is the only one that will use the GPU in a big way and even then it's mixed.

a nice big SSD

32GB ram

6c i7

is all you relay need

the imacpro is still a vary good option but you may not even need to go that high end for the apps you run.

just make sure you have a GPU with at least 4GB of vram.

if you are going to use resolve and work with 4K video you may want a GPU with 8GB vrambut there's always the option of a eGPU in 2-3 years time if you need it

the best thing you can do is have a quick look at
https://www.pugetsystems.com/all_articles.php
they have articles on each most pro apps which show whats needed and how they scale to hardware, there windows tests but holds true on mac

 

[ssgbryan]

I am willing to pay a premium too. But $6K for 8 cores? PCIe3? A video card that will be 2 generations back on the day of release?

12 cores, PCIe 4, Base Navi video card and I’d be ok with $6K (assuming 2 years from now I could get a CPU with more cores).

One thing no one seems to have picked up on is Intel will probably change the socket in 2 years.

 

[Manzanito]

I've been hanging onto my 2010 Mac Pro waiting for the announcement. I use the Adobe Creative Cloud Suite--mostly Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, and occasionally Premiere Pro--with a calibrated NEC MultiSync PA302W monitor.

Now that we know what the configurations and price of the Mac Pro will be I'm thinking it might be overkill.

What Mac products would be an alternative?

(I worry the iMac monitor won't be accurate enough for print work.)

If you don’t want an iMac then your only alternative within apple might be the mac mini.

I don’t think the iMac Pro would be wise because you start almost at the same price of the new mac pro, but with the difference of the ability to upgrade components yourself. Hence, the iMac Pro will be outdated and you can only buy a new computer, whereas with the mac pro you can switch gpu, storage and ram.

Anyways, if the programs you use are cross platform, you’ll likely get more value building a windows tower.

 

[ssgbryan]

you dont even need the imac pro the only app in that list that needs more than a 4c cpu is PP, depends on buget and how much and what you do in PP but any imac with high single core speed (i7 is a plus) and a good display will work.

PP is the only one that will use the GPU in a big way and even then it's mixed.

a nice big SSD

32GB ram

6c i7

is all you relay need

the imacpro is still a vary good option but you may not even need to go that high end for the apps you run.

just make sure you have a GPU with at least 4GB of vram.

if you are going to use resolve and work with 4K video you may want a GPU with 8GB vrambut there's always the option of a eGPU in 2-3 years time if you need it

the best thing you can do is have a quick look at
https://www.pugetsystems.com/all_articles.php
they have articles on each most pro apps which show whats needed and how they scale to hardware, there windows tests but holds true on mac

You must be used to only be doing 1 thing at a time. OS9 has been retired for a while now.

When I fire up my Mac, all apps are open and Tab between them as needed.

 

[goMac]

I am willing to pay a premium too. But $6K for 8 cores? PCIe3? A video card that will be 2 generations back on the day of release?

12 cores, PCIe 4, Base Navi video card and I’d be ok with $6K (assuming 2 years from now I could get a CPU with more cores).

One thing no one seems to have picked up on is Intel will probably change the socket in 2 years.

I don’t think Navi is being released on the high end at launch. It sounds like only the 580/560 replacements are coming for now. Which is probably why Apple chose a Radeon VII based GPU.

A Radeon 580 vs Navi at the entry probably wouldn’t end up being a big difference, and Apple can always make the change post launch. But people that care will be upgrading to the Radeon VII/Vega 2 anyway.

That said, if Navi did ship in a high end version by surprise, you could buy one and put it in yourself.
[doublepost=1560176246][/doublepost]

I've been hanging onto my 2010 Mac Pro waiting for the announcement. I use the Adobe Creative Cloud Suite--mostly Photoshop, Illustrator, InDesign, and occasionally Premiere Pro--with a calibrated NEC MultiSync PA302W monitor.

Now that we know what the configurations and price of the Mac Pro will be I'm thinking it might be overkill.

What Mac products would be an alternative?

(I worry the iMac monitor won't be accurate enough for print work.)

A Mac Mini with an eGPU would be just fine, and you could keep your monitor.

A good Mac Mini config is already likely much faster than the Mac Pro you have now.

 

[orph]

@ssgbryan well;
photoshop cc 2019
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Photoshop-CC-2019-CPU-Roundup-Intel-vs-AMD-vs-Mac-1295/
'Intel 9th Gen CPUs like the Core i9 9900K and Core i7 9700K are the top performers - which is to be expected since Photoshop is not terribly effective at leveraging higher core count CPUs'


PP cc 2019 (CPU test)
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...CC-2019-CPU-Roundup-Intel-vs-AMD-vs-Mac-1320/
18 core wins with the i9 9900K not to far away but i relay do think there test is a tad harder than a light user

PP cc 2019 (GPU test)
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...19-AMD-Radeon-VII-vs-NVIDIA-GeForce-RTX-1395/

there's more info there.

relay buget has not been mentioned but being realistic most adobe apps want fast cores, 2-6 threads and 32-64GB of ram with some fast SSD

be constructive bring in something to prove a point dontstart saying things like
'You must be used to only be doing 1 thing at a time. OS9 has been retired for a while now.'

it's not constructive

as a plus the imacs have relay good displays now so it's almost the same as a second refrence display for work so there is a real plus to that option.

just plug your good display in to the imac and proof how you always have in the past, now if you dont have the space for dual displays check display reviews of the imac and maybe look at the mac min.
PP is the only app that will be deeply effected by the GPU unless you need a 10bit out?

edit
photoshop GPU
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Photoshop-CC-2019-AMD-Radeon-VII-16GB-Performance-1379/
IGPU is relay not far of the vega 7
if i had the option of a relay fast SSD setup or a topend GPU for photoshop in my buget i know what is worth spending on.
now 10 bit out is diffrent not sure how that works but if needed it's worth spending for

 

[chuckidea]

What is it about your current system that you find lacking?

Good question. Main thing is it can't be upgraded to the current operating system. I can't go to Mohave because of the graphics card. Plus when working on large files, the software seems to be taxing the system more than in the past.
[doublepost=1560192942][/doublepost]

you dont even need the imac pro the only app in that list that needs more than a 4c cpu is PP, depends on buget and how much and what you do in PP but any imac with high single core speed (i7 is a plus) and a good display will work.

PP is the only one that will use the GPU in a big way and even then it's mixed.

a nice big SSD

32GB ram

6c i7

is all you relay need

the imacpro is still a vary good option but you may not even need to go that high end for the apps you run.

just make sure you have a GPU with at least 4GB of vram.

if you are going to use resolve and work with 4K video you may want a GPU with 8GB vrambut there's always the option of a eGPU in 2-3 years time if you need it

the best thing you can do is have a quick look at
https://www.pugetsystems.com/all_articles.php
they have articles on each most pro apps which show whats needed and how they scale to hardware, there windows tests but holds true on mac

Thanks very much, that's helpful.

BTW, my Mac Pro has 2x2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 1GB 1066 MHz DDR3 memory, ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024 MB Graphics card, and three terabyte drives.
[doublepost=1560193055][/doublepost]

If you don’t want an iMac then your only alternative within apple might be the mac mini.

I don’t think the iMac Pro would be wise because you start almost at the same price of the new mac pro, but with the difference of the ability to upgrade components yourself. Hence, the iMac Pro will be outdated and you can only buy a new computer, whereas with the mac pro you can switch gpu, storage and ram.

Anyways, if the programs you use are cross platform, you’ll likely get more value building a windows tower.

Thanks much.
[doublepost=1560193190][/doublepost]

I am willing to pay a premium too. But $6K for 8 cores? PCIe3? A video card that will be 2 generations back on the day of release?

12 cores, PCIe 4, Base Navi video card and I’d be ok with $6K (assuming 2 years from now I could get a CPU with more cores).

One thing no one seems to have picked up on is Intel will probably change the socket in 2 years.

Yeah, it's definitely a moving target.
[doublepost=1560193381][/doublepost]

I don’t think Navi is being released on the high end at launch. It sounds like only the 580/560 replacements are coming for now. Which is probably why Apple chose a Radeon VII based GPU.

A Radeon 580 vs Navi at the entry probably wouldn’t end up being a big difference, and Apple can always make the change post launch. But people that care will be upgrading to the Radeon VII/Vega 2 anyway.

That said, if Navi did ship in a high end version by surprise, you could buy one and put it in yourself.
[doublepost=1560176246][/doublepost]

A Mac Mini with an eGPU would be just fine, and you could keep your monitor.

A good Mac Mini config is already likely much faster than the Mac Pro you have now.

Good thought and just use external backup drives?

 

[Zdigital2015]

I am willing to pay a premium too. But $6K for 8 cores? PCIe3? A video card that will be 2 generations back on the day of release?

12 cores, PCIe 4, Base Navi video card and I’d be ok with $6K (assuming 2 years from now I could get a CPU with more cores).

One thing no one seems to have picked up on is Intel will probably change the socket in 2 years.

I honestly don't think they will for quite a while. The LGA-3467 is such a huge leap in size and pins from the previous Socket R (2011-3) that I think they have plenty of headroom to grow. Now, I suppose that PCIe 4.0 could make a difference, but I believe they can adapt it, or they will come out with a v2 version of it. The socket is just enormous - https://www.intel.com/content/www/u...0023869/processors/intel-xeon-processors.html

I honestly think that starting with the 12-core would have been better myself. PCIe 4 is a non-starter, but that is not under Apple's control and it is still possible that they could replace the base 580X with an AMD Radeon Pro 5700 or 5700XT before launch and they just didn't want to tell anyone because AMD is still going pretty slow on the Navi launch. At least until this evening. Not holding my breath though.

 

[chuckidea]

@ssgbryan well;
photoshop cc 2019
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Photoshop-CC-2019-CPU-Roundup-Intel-vs-AMD-vs-Mac-1295/
'Intel 9th Gen CPUs like the Core i9 9900K and Core i7 9700K are the top performers - which is to be expected since Photoshop is not terribly effective at leveraging higher core count CPUs'


PP cc 2019 (CPU test)
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...CC-2019-CPU-Roundup-Intel-vs-AMD-vs-Mac-1320/
18 core wins with the i9 9900K not to far away but i relay do think there test is a tad harder than a light user

PP cc 2019 (GPU test)
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/a...19-AMD-Radeon-VII-vs-NVIDIA-GeForce-RTX-1395/

there's more info there.

relay buget has not been mentioned but being realistic most adobe apps want fast cores, 2-6 threads and 32-64GB of ram with some fast SSD

be constructive bring in something to prove a point dontstart saying things like
'You must be used to only be doing 1 thing at a time. OS9 has been retired for a while now.'

it's not constructive

as a plus the imacs have relay good displays now so it's almost the same as a second refrence display for work so there is a real plus to that option.

just plug your good display in to the imac and proof how you always have in the past, now if you dont have the space for dual displays check display reviews of the imac and maybe look at the mac min.
PP is the only app that will be deeply effected by the GPU unless you need a 10bit out?

edit
photoshop GPU
https://www.pugetsystems.com/labs/articles/Photoshop-CC-2019-AMD-Radeon-VII-16GB-Performance-1379/
IGPU is relay not far of the vega 7
if i had the option of a relay fast SSD setup or a topend GPU for photoshop in my buget i know what is worth spending on.
now 10 bit out is diffrent not sure how that works but if needed it's worth spending for

Thanks for the links, I have some reading to do...

 

[orph]

their reviews are amazing, I relay have never found a site as good as that for pro apps info and reviews from the hardware side.
it almost all windows but it will hold true to mac and we dont have the same CPU options all the time but from the articles, you can see how applications scale on GPU/CPU/drive speed or ram use etc

https://macperformanceguide.com/ used to be the best site but now it's just adverts

one thing to mention is what is your buget?

Mac Pro has 2x2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 1GB 1066 MHz DDR3 memory, ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024 MB Graphics card, and three terabyte drives.

if thats what you use now then an mac min is going to be 2 times+ the speed (i7 cpu upgrade) maybe more
i think your CPU is the E5530 2.4ghz - 2.66ghz
if you want a cheep DIY upgrade,
two X5677 3.46ghz - 3.73ghz 4c/8t CPU are about £30 on eBay each
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...R1.TRC0.A0.H0.XX5677.TRS0&_nkw=X5677&_sacat=0
if your on a macpro 4,1 it needs the firmware 4.1 to 5.1 upgrade

only 1 GB of ram? i grabed 32GB on ebayfairly cheep was £50 a few years back

are your drives SSD's ?you can get 1TB SSD fairly cheep now.

GPU RX 580 8gb is a good option and will take you to osx10.14

but in the end id get a mac mini or imac with a i7/i9, DIY upgrade to 32GB of ram and have a new faster computer if it was me

ps https://barefeats.com/ has speed comparisons of all the macs
imac i9 v cmp that is maxed out
https://barefeats.com/imac-2019-i9-versus-pro-macs.html
imac i9 v imac pro
https://barefeats.com/imac-2019-i9-versus-imac-pro-2.html
macmin2018 v imac and macbook pro
https://barefeats.com/mac-mini-2018-versus-other-macs.html

 

[chuckidea]

their reviews are amazing, I relay have never found a site as good as that for pro apps info and reviews from the hardware side.
it almost all windows but it will hold true to mac and we dont have the same CPU options all the time but from the articles, you can see how applications scale on GPU/CPU/drive speed or ram use etc

https://macperformanceguide.com/ used to be the best site but now it's just adverts

one thing to mention is what is your buget?

Mac Pro has 2x2.4 GHz Quad-Core Intel Xeon, 1GB 1066 MHz DDR3 memory, ATI Radeon HD 5870 1024 MB Graphics card, and three terabyte drives.

if thats what you use now then an mac min is going to be 2 times+ the speed (i7 cpu upgrade) maybe more
i think your CPU is the E5530 2.4ghz - 2.66ghz
if you want a cheep DIY upgrade,
two X5677 3.46ghz - 3.73ghz 4c/8t CPU are about £30 on eBay each
https://www.ebay.co.uk/sch/i.html?_...R1.TRC0.A0.H0.XX5677.TRS0&_nkw=X5677&_sacat=0
if your on a macpro 4,1 it needs the firmware 4.1 to 5.1 upgrade

only 1 GB of ram? i grabed 32GB on ebayfairly cheep was £50 a few years back

are your drives SSD's ?you can get 1TB SSD fairly cheep now.

GPU RX 580 8gb is a good option and will take you to osx10.14

but in the end id get a mac mini or imac with a i7/i9, DIY upgrade to 32GB of ram and have a new faster computer if it was me

ps https://barefeats.com/ has speed comparisons of all the macs
imac i9 v cmp that is maxed out
https://barefeats.com/imac-2019-i9-versus-pro-macs.html
imac i9 v imac pro
https://barefeats.com/imac-2019-i9-versus-imac-pro-2.html
macmin2018 v imac and macbook pro
https://barefeats.com/mac-mini-2018-versus-other-macs.html

Interesting. So this Mac Mini would be $2499.

• 3.2GHz 6‑core 8th‑generation Intel Core i7 (Turbo Boost up to 4.6GHz)
• 32GB 2666MHz DDR4
• Intel UHD Graphics 630
• 1TB SSD storage
• Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet using RJ-45 connector)

I guess you'd install you apps on the SSD drive an use external SSD drives for data and backup?

 

[Slash-2CPU]

Interesting. So this Mac Mini would be $2499.

• 3.2GHz 6‑core 8th‑generation Intel Core i7 (Turbo Boost up to 4.6GHz)
• 32GB 2666MHz DDR4
• Intel UHD Graphics 630
• 1TB SSD storage
• Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet using RJ-45 connector)

I guess you'd install you apps on the SSD drive an use external SSD drives for data and backup?

Right. Upside there is if/when you replace the Mini, your investment in external drives isn’t lost. Mini will be a lot cheaper to upgrade to the next generation than another new Mac Pro.

 

[chuckidea]

Right. Upside there is if/when you replace the Mini, your investment in external drives isn’t lost. Mini will be a lot cheaper to upgrade to the next generation than another new Mac Pro.

Is the graphics cards comparable?

 

[Slash-2CPU]

Is the graphics cards comparable?

Depends on what you’re doing. If your work doesn’t massive GPU acceleration, and you just need to push a picture to a monitor, both systems will do that. If you need GPU acceleration for filters or heavy 3D work or processing 4K video for production, the Mini’s GPU will fall flat on its face.

It may be one of the situations where you’d already know if you needed the ncMP’s GPU and wouldn’t need to ask.

There’s always eGPU over TB3, but it’ll never be the same as an internal card.

 

[chuckidea]

Depends on what you’re doing. If your work doesn’t massive GPU acceleration, and you just need to push a picture to a monitor, both systems will do that. If you need GPU acceleration for filters or heavy 3D work or processing 4K video for production, the Mini’s GPU will fall flat on its face.

It may be one of the situations where you’d already know if you needed the ncMP’s GPU and wouldn’t need to ask.

There’s always eGPU over TB3, but it’ll never be the same as an internal card.

Yeah, that's probably the hole in an otherwise good solution. I don't use PP often but when I do it can include 4K video.

 

[Ph.D.]

It's possible that I'll buy one. It's pricey but I can afford it. But I don't really need it after giving up waiting several years ago.

My heavy duty work is now done on a linux machine (9900k, 2080ti, etc.). Indeed, it's far better than a Mac for some of my needs. For example, the machine learning tools I use (Keras, etc.) can take advantage of Nvidia graphics for acceleration, but not AMD.

I do recommend Linux over Windows.

 

[orph]

id do the cheeper macmin option

• 3.2GHz 6‑core 8th‑generation Intel Core i7 (Turbo Boost up to 4.6GHz)
• 8GB 2666MHz DDR4
• Intel UHD Graphics 630
• 512GB SSD storage
• Gigabit Ethernet (10/100/1000BASE-T Gigabit Ethernet using RJ-45 connector)

$1,499.00
DIY ram
https://9to5mac.com/2018/11/20/how-to-upgrade-ram-2018-mac-mini-video/
the 32GB ram kit they link is $172

so only $1,671
then you have about $800 spare to buy external drives and eGPU

if you want a eGPU look at https://egpu.io/ for info

or this is a good option
imac 27'

• 3.7GHz 6-core 9th-generation Intel Core i5 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.6GHz
• 8GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
• Radeon Pro 580X with 8GB of GDDR5 memory
• 512GB SSD storage

$2,399.00
then DIY upgrade the ram (can you on imac?)

or
imac 21'

• 3.2GHz 6-core 8th-generation Intel Core i7 processor, Turbo Boost up to 4.6GHz
• 8GB 2666MHz DDR4 memory
• Radeon Pro 560X with 4GB of GDDR5 memory
• 512GB SSD storage

$2,000,00

imac ram upgrade
https://9to5mac.com/2019/04/05/how-to-upgrade-27-inch-5k-imac-2019-128-gb-ram-video-tutorial/
looks super easy upgrade

for me id get apple care if you can, in the uk john lewis gives you a free 3 year repairs with all macs so worth checking if a shop has a good deal like that.

one problem with the new macs is repairs can cost a lot

ps i dont know what your budget is so i tried to match you in cost (past midnight so be kind )

pps if you can try them out in a shop

ppps the imacs can use more than one display so keep your old one and the imac display is good
[doublepost=1560210028][/doublepost]do not trust just me, look around and get info
i may be wrong

 

[pl1984]

I'm just not a fan of Windows. Apple seems, too, to have a pretty good handle on security.

Can you elaborate on what you mean with this?

 

[AidenShaw]

Can you elaborate on what you mean with this?

He could tell you, but then he'd have to kill you.

 

[mavericks7913]

iMac or iMac Pro but there ISNT any alternative for a modular Mac desktop which sucks.