Pot and Kettle

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by skunk, Nov 18, 2007.

  1. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #1
    The incongruity of Negroponte, the erstwhile Viceroy of Iraq and chief enabler of right wing Honduran death squads, lecturing Musharraf on democracy is almost as extreme as that of Bush, chief proponent of the Global War on Terror, being complicit in denying the reality of the second greatest Holocaust in history, that of the Armenians in 1915, on the grounds that it would damage both NATO and the chances of success in Iraq.

    http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/south_asia/7100322.stm
    http://www.change-links.org/Negroponte.htm
    http://news.independent.co.uk/fisk/article3146418.ece
     
  2. Peterkro macrumors 68020

    Peterkro

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    #2
    The sad truth is most people won't read this,too many words.As I get older I'm amazed at the stupidity of many people who simply have no grasp of modern history at all.In Bush's case you can truly judge him by the people he calls friend,House of Saud,Turkish military,South American torturers et al.
     
  3. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #3
    "Who then?" would be my question. The Bush administration is loaded with tainted messengers. This much we know. Does anyone have a problem with the message?
     
  4. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #4
    The message is entirely ineffectual and itself tainted when delivered by such a tainted messenger. A military dictatorship in Pakistan has suited the White House very well for the past several years, as have so many others elsewhere. The US is simply not able to act as an honest broker with such a dishonest and transparently cynical stance. The message is intended for the edification of the messenger rather than the enlightenment of the recipient.
     
  5. Dont Hurt Me macrumors 603

    Dont Hurt Me

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    #5
    Dont forget Mussollini, Bush has been interested in his his book if I recall. America knows Bush sucks,the Republicans suck and the Democrats suck and all are owned by the same corporations. Please someone Help!
     
  6. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #6
    Thanks for the humor. I rarely laugh so hard my sides hurt except when I read posts like yours. Please let me know what corporation owns me so that I'll know them when they call with orders.

    And thanks for pointing out the thing about the book. Now I know for SURE that I don't want to read anything from Gore or Hillary because someone might see that as a sign I'm embracing their point of view. Better to be safe than sorry.
     
  7. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #7
    Your response is both mean-spirited and devoid of meaningful content.
    You would not find the time to ask whose bidding you were doing, you'd be too busy asking how high to jump.
     
  8. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #8
    Fine, but that wasn't the question. Is the message wrong or right? Who, if anyone, is in a better position to deliver the message?
     
  9. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #9
    The message is superfluous, to be seen delivering it is all the Administration wants. However, the inappropriateness of the messenger-boy is mind-boggling.
     
  10. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #10
    And you're surprised by this?

    Irony being that DHM used to be a Republican, but unlike some people, has realized the rest of his party has let us all down.

    Uh, someone not guilty of doing, or at least supporting, the same things?

    Unless that was your point, in which case, I don't know.
     
  11. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #11
    I don't agree that the message is superfluous. In fact it's more than necessary, it's long overdue. How much impact it will have at this late date, short of a threat to curtail military aid, is a reasonable question.

    Essentially. To be frank, I don't think Musharraf cares who in the US government brings him this message, because it's got no impact on the meaning. It could be delivered by Bush's dog Barney, for all it really matters. Sometimes we overrate symbolism. Either the message is backed up by action or it's not. This alone determines the meaning.
     
  12. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #12
    "America knows that Bush sucks," is a statement that is both meaningful content and substantiated? I guess by America he means people that agree with him.

    The reason I laugh so hard is because my statements get picked for every nit while gross generalizations from the hard lefties get a pass.

    Wait, the phone is ringing. "... miles to go before I sleep ..." Excuse me, but I have a mission to perform for Big Pharma. :rolleyes:
     
  13. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #13
    Neither, but I would not have thought that a side-splitting laugh is an appropriate response.
     
  14. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #14
    If DHM is a hard lefty, what does that make you? He's a former Republican who got fed up with Bush. Bush was the reason he left the party. I don't think that makes him a hard lefty. As a matter of fact, you should go back through his posts, he's pretty conservative.
     
  15. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #15
    Since it's pretty much all rhetoric, I doubt it will have any.

    And since we all know nothing will come of the the rhetoric, see above.

    Well, since over ~70something% don't like him, and even some of those ~30%ers (including yourself) have problems with the way he's conducting some things, I'd say that was a fair statement. Maybe he should have said "most". As for why we give DHM a free pass for some of this:

    I already mentioned that, but we all know SL isn't interested in fact checking. :rolleyes:

    Hard lefty?

     
  16. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #16
    I suspect as much as well. The entire Afghanistan operation is supplied through Pakistan, which certainly increases Musharraf's bargaining power. Still, I can think of other good reasons for even merely rhetorical strategies. The potential certainly exists for Musharraf's control of the country to be broken. If a new government takes over, it may matter where the US (and other nations) stood while Pakistan struggled to regain democracy and rule of law. This is why I think it's important to take a stand in favor of the right outcome. It's too little too late perhaps, but even too little to late is better than nothing ever at all.
     
  17. skunk thread starter macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #17
    My point exactly: the jaw-dropping cynicism of delivering such a message by means of such an inappropriate conduit makes the message if anything counter-productive, especially while the lecturee is being freely supplied with all means necessary to maintain his dictatorial supremacy.
     
  18. IJ Reilly macrumors P6

    IJ Reilly

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    #18
    In the real world of politics, the messenger doesn't much matter. What's said and what's done, does.

    The military aid given to Pakistan has much more to do with India than with maintaining Musharraf's dictatorship. Not that this makes it any better, really, but I don't think it's very accurate to suggest that Musharraf remains in power because of US military aid. The real tragedy of this aid is that Musharraf refuses to spend any significant amount of it on improving the effectiveness of the Pakistani armed forces which are supposed to patrol the tribal areas.
     
  19. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #19
    Anyone can register as a Republican, but fewer are true conservatives. Excuse me for not detecting the inner conservative in him.
     
  20. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #20
    Could you please define the term, "true conservative"? That should be interesting.
     
  21. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #21
    He voted for Bush, and just a few years ago was more pro Iraq war than you are. Very little of what I've seen of him is anywhere near left leaning, let alone hard left. He, like most of us, just isn't happy with the party right now, but is also not happy with the Dems either. Like most of us. Nice dodge though. I stand by my statement. Your's is still incorrect.

    When you're that far to the right, almost everyone is to the left of you.
     
  22. Swarmlord macrumors 6502a

    Swarmlord

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    #22
    Voting for Bush does not make you a conservative. Might make you a registered Republican and might even make you a moderate that couldn't bear the thought of Lurch or Gore as President, but not a conservative.

    I'd sure like to know how someone can be more pro war against Islamic fundamentalists than I am.
     
  23. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #23
    You weren't here when he was, but he was. Of course, that was back when a lot more people were supportive of Bush and the war. Plus, we're actually disputing the term "hard lefties". He's anything but, even if he doesn't measure up to your apparently hard rightieness. I don't know why you can't just admit you were mistaken and move on, but now you've got to argue that someone can still be "hard left" even when they primarily vote Republican and used to support them all the way. Maybe he hasn't changed and the Republicans are the ones who've gotten worse. From someone that knows him, seems that way to me.

    And you still haven't answered Lee's question.
     
  24. obeygiant macrumors 68040

    obeygiant

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    totally cool
  25. solvs macrumors 603

    solvs

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    #25
    That's the first time I've ever noticed you apologize for anything. I have no idea what for, but it doesn't really matter. My respect for you has suddenly gone up. :) Not that you care what I think about you, of course, but I figured I'd throw that out there. ;)

    On topic: Does anything seem to be changing in Pakistan? Either way, good or bad? Doesn't seem like it, but I haven't heard anything in the media lately for some reason.
     

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