POTUS Is Too Erratic To Trust With Secrets?

Huntn

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What kind of a sorry state have we found ourselves in? What kind of dope did we elect? Trump has a very big mouth and he is either an incompetent moron if he means it, that we won’t spy on them, or he is a liar and as usual is trying to impress someone, but why open his mouth in the first place? It make him vulnerable to just more allegations about lying, but maybe he thinks he is immune from blowback based on his already documented, prolific lying.

Now there is this NYTimes report, our intelligence service are too scared to in trust him with sensitive material. Real or fake news?

Pronouncement, US won’t spy on N.Korea: https://www.businessinsider.com/trump-cia-wont-spy-kim-jong-un-after-nam-killing-2019-6

Intelligence Officials won’t brief Trump on Cyber Intrusions in Russia Power Grid: https://www.theroot.com/report-intelligence-officials-wont-brief-trump-on-cybe-1835560314

On Saturday, the New York Times ran an extensive report on American military and intelligence agencies’ efforts to introduce malicious computer code into Russia’s power grid. The article detailed the country’s entrance into the cyberwarfare arena, revealing that the US placed electronic surveillance code and reconnaissance probes in the control systems of the Russian power grid years ago. But ever since Russia’s pro-Trump attacks on the U.S. elections, American’s cyber warfare experts have begun introducing far more aggressive malware to the Russian power grid.

Halfway through the story, the Times reveals that sources confirmed that President Trump hasn’t been briefed on the policy because intelligence officials believe he might shut down the secret cybersecurity offensive or reveal it to foreign sources.
 
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blackfox

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Well, despite the obvious potential pragmatism implied - don't care for the precedent. Really, most of the precedents in the last couple years regarding Trump...
 

Huntn

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Well, despite the obvious potential pragmatism implied - don't care for the precedent. Really, most of the precedents in the last couple years regarding Trump...
So the military is now free to conduct cyber warfare without any civilian oversight whatsoever, neat.

This is absurdly dangerous.
Guys, if accurate, this is the realization and an acknowledgement of what we have for a President, how professionals in our intelligence services regard him, someone who is more worried about business opportunities, instead of his country, erratic, unstable, puppet, foreign agent, your worst fear, etc.
 
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blackfox

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Guys, if accurate, this is the realization and an acknowledgement of what we have for a President, how professional in our intelligence services regard him, someone who is more worried about business opportunities, instead of his country, erratic, unstable, puppet, foreign agent, your worst fear, etc.
Look, we most likely agree here - but those are some major assumptions there. I am concerned more in the preservation of our systems of Governance when it comes down to it. Even if Trump is everything you say and more - there are avenues to deal with that, in line with our Constitution. While, if the allegations are true, i should applaud said parties - it is effectively dismantling our Republic (or whatever it is now).
 
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tkukoc

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It's a tough sell either way. I personally don't like him but if he's in the "need to know" then yes he should be briefed. Even if it's just the 30 second version. Now some of this stuff may never be brought up, same goes for previous presidents. Some have specific agenda points, others go completely by the seat of their pants. I don't knock any of them for that.
 

Huntn

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Look, we most likely agree here - but those are some major assumptions there. I am concerned more in the preservation of our systems of Governance when it comes down to it. Even if Trump is everything you say and more - there are avenues to deal with that, in line with our Constitution. While, if the allegations are true, i should applaud said parties - it is effectively dismantling our Republic (or whatever it is now).
The primary avenue would be impeachment, but this is a situation where impeachment would completely be ineffectual and not a solution unless the GOP wake up from their Win Fantasies.
[doublepost=1560817582][/doublepost]
It's a tough sell either way. I personally don't like him but if he's in the "need to know" then yes he should be briefed. Even if it's just the 30 second version. Now some of this stuff may never be brought up, same goes for previous presidents. Some have specific agenda points, others go completely by the seat of their pants. I don't knock any of them for that.
If this story is accurate, my guess is they stuck to generalities, and avoid specifics as much as possible.
 

blackfox

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The primary avenue would be impeachment, but this is a situation where impeachment would completely be ineffectual and not a solution unless the GOP wake up from their Win Fantasies.
[doublepost=1560817582][/doublepost]
If this story is accurate, my guess is they stuck to generalities, and avoid specifics as much as possible.
Yet impeachment doesn't necessarily remove the President from Office. Johnson didn't go. Clinton either. Nixon just resigned (which will never happen with Trump). This, if you're paying attention (Conservatives/Liberals alike) - is what happens when the system you hold dear is shown to the world as broken. There is really no denying that now...
 
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NT1440

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Look, we most likely agree here - but those are some major assumptions there. I am concerned more in the preservation of our systems of Governance when it comes down to it. Even if Trump is everything you say and more - there are avenues to deal with that, in line with our Constitution. While, if the allegations are true, i should applaud said parties - it is effectively dismantling our Republic (or whatever it is now).
That’s pretty much it in a nutshell. Military mindset is not about democracy, diplomacy, or forging goodwill to avoid war. It is about war, full stop, by definition.

Anyone applauding a military institution circumventing the very checks and balances put into the fabric of governance here to keep it constrained hasn’t thought about the wildly dangerous implications at all.

Nothing about this is good news, on any front.
 

yaxomoxay

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That’s pretty much it in a nutshell. Military mindset is not about democracy, diplomacy, or forging goodwill to avoid war. It is about war, full stop, by definition.

Anyone applauding a military institution circumventing the very checks and balances put into the fabric of governance here to keep it constrained hasn’t thought about the wildly dangerous implications at all.

Nothing about this is good news, on any front.
Standing ovation.
 
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NT1440

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Yeah it’s dangerous. What if the military brass doesn’t trust the president because they’re afraid he will mouth off to impress an adversary?
Military planning outlasts any administration. I fear what the current crop of military brass at the top would do when completely unleashed. I’ve been watching them inch towards war with Russia and China since the Bush II administration. Empire is bad for the world, it’s downright dangerous at a societal level when it becomes clear it’s influence is finally waning. The lashing out that every one have them has done in history as they desperately grab for any power it still has will doom us all when it’s got enough nuclear weapons to end life on the planet and is picking a fight with an adversary that has the same capability.

Trump is an absolute incompetent fool, but the more frightening part of his administration to me has been his wholesale handoff of military power to his bloodthirsty advisers and the military/intelligence agencies. There’s nothing there to contain them.
 
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Sydde

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The President is supposed to be accountable. Like the sign Harry S put on the desk in the Oval, The Buck Stops Here. If he is being deliberately kept in the dark, someone needs to go.

The Founders had a deep distrust of a standing army. This illustrates their concern.
 

GermanSuplex

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His behavior has been absurdly erratic over the last week, and that’s saying something. He’s at a race to the bottom and he’s his own opponent. Next election can’t get here soon enough, we need some bipartisanship and accountability. There’s no way you can tell me those around Trump don’t think he’s anything but a massive moron. That’s why people like Miller and Bolton have so much influence on him.
 
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Huntn

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Yet impeachment doesn't necessarily remove the President from Office. Johnson didn't go. Clinton either. Nixon just resigned (which will never happen with Trump). This, if you're paying attention (Conservatives/Liberals alike) - is what happens when the system you hold dear is shown to the world as broken. There is really no denying that now...
I’m very aware of that, as I said it would be ineffectual.
 

yaxomoxay

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If this story is accurate, my guess is they stuck to generalities, and avoid specifics as much as possible.
Presidential briefings are quite general in nature (see here for a JFK era super-duper top secret PDB: https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0005958911.pdf , 8 pages of which 2 are maps and 1 is the title page).
Obviously much depends on the president himself. Nixon was very formal and wanted many things in writing. Johnson was informal; the important foreign policy decisions were usually taken at a Tuesday lunch where there was virtually no agenda and the various briefers and secretaries showed up with little preparation.
 
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Huntn

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Presidential briefings are quite general in nature (see here for a JFK era super-duper top secret PDB: https://www.cia.gov/library/readingroom/docs/DOC_0005958911.pdf , 8 pages of which 2 are maps and 1 is the title page).
Obviously much depends on the president himself. Nixon was very formal and wanted many things in writing. Johnson was informal; the important foreign policy decisions were usually taken at a Tuesday lunch where there was virtually no agenda and the various briefers and secretaries showed up with little preparation.
It’s been reported several times that Trump does not like to read reports or sit through briefings.
 

yaxomoxay

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It’s been reported several times that Trump does not like to read reports or sit through briefings.
No, he doesn't like long reports, which is different.
From MSNBC, which ain't DJT friendly:
"Trump said he likes his briefings short, ideally one-page if it’s in writing. “I like bullets or I like as little as possible. I don’t need, you know, 200-page reports on something that can be handled on a page. That I can tell you.”"
http://www.msnbc.com/rachel-maddow-show/intelligence-briefings-trump-prefers-little-possible
 
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GermanSuplex

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He seems like he wants to be a wartime president. I’ve always thought he had a very basic and 4th-grade level of thought on what it means to be president. He envisions himself as Washington or Lincoln, but he’s really more like Carrot Top, though funnier, if unintentionally.
 

Huntn

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He seems like he wants to be a wartime president. I’ve always thought he had a very basic and 4th-grade level of thought on what it means to be president. He envisions himself as Washington or Lincoln, but he’s really more like Carrot Top, though funnier, if unintentionally.
What I to hear is the reaction from the local Trump is a Dove Crowd when we end up in a shooting war.
 

GermanSuplex

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