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PowerBook G5 with Liquid Cooling

MacRumors

macrumors bot
Original poster
Apr 12, 2001
51,032
12,571
AppleInsider reports that Apple engineers, faced with the cooling obstacles of the G5 processor in the Powerbook, are testing liquid cooled systems for the portables.

While this might allow Apple to release a G5-powered PowerBook earlier, it would increase cost and size requirements, possibly limiting the technology to the 17" PowerBook to start.
 

XnavxeMiyyep

macrumors 65816
Mar 27, 2003
1,131
3
Washington
Well, I'm not sure if it's good or bad news, but the Powerbooks are going to have to get a bit thicker eventually, or they won't be expandable enough.
 
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Digidesign

macrumors 6502
Jan 7, 2002
448
52
I'd rather have it thicker and cooler/quieter, then thin and hot/noisy (PB 550/667's loud fans come to mind).
 
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Powerbook G5

macrumors 68040
Jun 23, 2003
3,974
0
St Augustine, FL
I've heard some interesting ideas for G5 PowerBooks, but the more I hear, the happier I am for having just buying a G4 now since any of these extreme tech ideas would be a real pain in the ass to deal with as a Rev. A model with almost guaranteed problems with so much new technology. If I were to have waiting for a second rev PowerBook G5, I'd be waiting for a good year or two.
 
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Freg3000

macrumors 68000
Sep 22, 2002
1,914
0
New York
I can't imagine how this could be done. But then again, I am not an Apple engineer. Is it as "simple" as it sounds? Just using a liquid to physically cool the processor, rather than blowing air on it?
 
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Steamboatwillie

macrumors regular
Mar 25, 2003
215
0
Memphis, TN
Not the real solution

Really I would think that they should focus on creating less heat from the cpu. Fancy cooling devices only *move* the heat from the cpu to somewhere else. That's fine in a desktop where blowing the heat out into the room is acceptable. In a laptop it's totally different. That heat has to go somewhere, hence the modern lap warmer that happens to do computing as well! Monkeying with water cooling, in my opinion, is a waste of time and money for laptops.
 
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CMillerERAU

macrumors regular
May 12, 2003
164
0
I wonder if they'd use water or something that is more cooling like freon, then again I'd much rather have a powerbook leak water on me than freon.
 
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vitruvius

macrumors regular
Feb 26, 2002
246
0
Caracas, Venezuela
mmm... so now PowerBooks will be like cars, they need fuel (cells) to run, and change the coolant so it dont get too hot... so whats next? oil change?:rolleyes:

ahh i cant wait....:D
 
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dongmin

macrumors 68000
Jan 3, 2002
1,708
0
Re: Not the real solution

Originally posted by Steamboatwillie
Really I would think that they should focus on creating less heat from the cpu. Fancy cooling devices only *move* the heat from the cpu to somewhere else. That's fine in a desktop where blowing the heat out into the room is acceptable. In a laptop it's totally different. That heat has to go somewhere, hence the modern lap warmer that happens to do computing as well! Monkeying with water cooling, in my opinion, is a waste of time and money for laptops.

I'm sure they're considering all the options. Hopefully the new die-shrunk 970 will be cool enough for the PowerBooks. But who knows, even a die-shrunk 970 plus whatever new architecture they're putting in is still too hot.

I'd say options like liquid cooling represent worst case scenarios.
 
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gothamac

macrumors member
Feb 28, 2003
98
0
Manhattan
This company is selling what they call the "worlds first personal Supercomputer" and they have an interesting cooling system.


"Up to -35'C. That's how cool the CPU gets. That's how hot this system is. The most spectacular cooling system ever built using vapor compression cycle, is capable of removing CPU's heat over 50 times more efficiently than any air cooling solution. The enclosure itself, houses multiple air-flow thermal zones design with independent fans for all major temperature generating components."

Take a look at the tiny graphs showing it kicking the G5's butt.

http://www.go-l.com/desktops/machl35/features/index.htm

At the bottom of the page there's a link to the online store, It doesn't work on the top bar. Check out thoses prices.
 
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Big Lar

macrumors newbie
Sep 23, 2003
6
0
Liquid cooling, etc.

These guys are already using a liquid heat sink for the CPU: http://www.go-l.com/laptops/hollywood/features/index.htm

Liquid cooling is better for concentrating cooling in tight spaces. But you complicate the system because you have to move the hot material to another location and then blow air over it. The heat doesn't accumulate in the liquid.

AS for getting hydrogen out of water, it takes more energy to get the hydrogen out of water than you recover when you run it through a fuel cell, so that will never work. That's basic chemistry and physics.
 
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3-22

macrumors regular
Nov 19, 2002
190
0
Cooling...

I forgot who (or where), but someone was working on a cooling system that transfered heat to the back of the screen. This gave you a large cooling area, plus no hot lap.
 
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JoeRadar

macrumors regular
May 28, 2003
153
0
About time

It is about time someone mentioned this in a rumor column. I have been aware of the more exotic cooling mechanisms in the PC world, and I am surprised it took this long for the subject to make it into the G5 PB threads.

While feasible, I still think Apple should wait on a G5 notebook for several reasons including:

(1) catch up with current orders for G5 PowerMacs;

(2) release a G5 Xserve;

(3) wait for 90 nm version of 970;

(4) wait for the POWER5 derived chip which was designed to support smaller/cooler systems.
 
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mainstreetmark

macrumors 68020
May 7, 2003
2,228
293
Saint Augustine, FL
Freon, itself, isn't really cold. It just happens to be a liquid/gas that can be cheaply compressed (which releases heat) and expanded (which soaks up heat). Having a compressor and coils in a notebook seems impracticle.

Liquid cooling, in this case, is just using the inherent heat capacity of the coolant to carry the heat away. The heat moves from the hot thing (the chip) to the coolant, where it's carried away and cooled off at a more leasurely pace, or an accelerated pace, such as a car radiator.

Air cooling works just the same way, but it has a far less heat capacity and a much slower heat transfer (hense, tons of fins - more surface area = more 'paths' for the heat to move). As pointed out, you can just jet the air out the back and be done with it.

If they use liquid cooling they'd need some sort of radiator to get rid of the heat (which, ironically, will almost certainly be air cooled anyways). The question is, where? I've always thought that the back of the laptop lid has a ton of unused surface area. They could pump liquid up into the lid where it would have plenty of time and space to cool down. Who cares if you have a warm lid.

But, unfortunatly, to pump a liquid straight up in the air 12 inches would require a pretty beefy little pump, so we may not see that method. Of course, they could move the entire processor up there and give it it's own environment. Situated vertically, the processor could heat up the coolant which would naturally rise, lava-lamp style. Maybe a small pump to assist the convection currents. The keyboard part of the laptop would then contain only the much cooler stuff like the drive. Might even make room for a PCI slot. :) Or, a 5.25" floppy drive.

Hmm - i should get back to work.
 
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Big Lar

macrumors newbie
Sep 23, 2003
6
0
supercomputer?

Originally posted by gothamac
This company is selling what they call the "worlds first personal Supercomputer" and they have an interesting cooling system.


"Up to -35'C. That's how cool the CPU gets. That's how hot this system is. The most spectacular cooling system ever built using vapor compression cycle, is capable of removing CPU's heat over 50 times more efficiently than any air cooling solution.


Hmm, an overclocked P4 with an air conditioning system on it. Works like this" compress the gas, it gets hot, then cool it, then expand it, it gets cold. Run this cold gas over the processor. Should work just fine. I expect that it's noisy.
 
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blogo

macrumors 6502
Apr 1, 2002
290
0
Originally posted by gothamac
This company is selling what they call the "worlds first personal Supercomputer" and they have an interesting cooling system.


"Up to -35'C. That's how cool the CPU gets. That's how hot this system is. The most spectacular cooling system ever built using vapor compression cycle, is capable of removing CPU's heat over 50 times more efficiently than any air cooling solution. The enclosure itself, houses multiple air-flow thermal zones design with independent fans for all major temperature generating components."

Take a look at the tiny graphs showing it kicking the G5's butt.

http://www.go-l.com/desktops/machl35/features/index.htm

At the bottom of the page there's a link to the online store, It doesn't work on the top bar. Check out thoses prices.

Then again, just the case costs like 600$
 
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jer2665

macrumors regular
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gothamac

macrumors member
Feb 28, 2003
98
0
Manhattan
"where'd they get a single 2.0 ghz g5?"

I don't see the word single?

This company has copied the Apple store. What's with the first "get yours free" box. The ball looks like idisk.
 
Comment

Gymnut

macrumors 68000
Apr 18, 2003
1,848
3
Originally posted by gothamac
This company is selling what they call the "worlds first personal Supercomputer" and they have an interesting cooling system.


"Up to -35'C. That's how cool the CPU gets. That's how hot this system is. The most spectacular cooling system ever built using vapor compression cycle, is capable of removing CPU's heat over 50 times more efficiently than any air cooling solution. The enclosure itself, houses multiple air-flow thermal zones design with independent fans for all major temperature generating components."

Take a look at the tiny graphs showing it kicking the G5's butt.

http://www.go-l.com/desktops/machl35/features/index.htm

At the bottom of the page there's a link to the online store, It doesn't work on the top bar. Check out thoses prices.

Isn't this the same site where the panoramic monitors were met with skepticism?
 
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