PRC loses South China Sea case

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by VulchR, Jul 12, 2016.

  1. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #1
    The PRC has lost its case for claiming large swaths of the South China Sea. Already Beijing is indicating it will not respect this ruling, yet it seems clear the US will not accept the PRC's attempt to grab contested waters. No doubt this will lead to small scale confrontations between ships and planes the the US and PRC. I wonder if something worse will kick off if one side miscalculates or misunderstands the other.
     
  2. vrDrew, Jul 12, 2016
    Last edited: Jul 12, 2016

    vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #2
    I will note that the United States position in this case, that of upholding the rule of law and international cooperation, would be a lot stronger were it not for the case that the US Senate has so far refused to to ratify the UN Conventions on the Law of the Sea Treaty.

    Yes: Thank your friendly local Republican Party. Despite the testimony of a host of 4-star officers representing every armed service; the opinion of just about every major figure from US diplomatic history; scientists; business leaders; and international trade experts - the US Republican Senate Caucus refuses to ratify this important piece of international law.

    Because? Oh god, I don't know. Maybe because it might lend a hint of legitimacy to the Presidency of Barack Obama.

    If you see a Republican today, spit in his food.
     
  3. VulchR thread starter macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #3
    The US has ignored international court rulings, like the International Court of Justice case won by Nicaragua against the US. No doubt this will also be used against the US in the propaganda wars to come. Interestingly, when I tired to access the Permanent Court of Arbitration's web site earlier today to read the actual judgement about the South China Sea, all I got was 403 and internal server errors. Perhaps the PRC has declared a cyberwar on it. Certainly the Wikipedia entry for the case looks like it was written by PRC propaganda specialists.
     
  4. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #4
    No doubt they are uploading a strongly-worded statement into Obama's TelePrompTer with "Make no mistake" and "Let me be clear" liberally salted throughout. Obama is so angry he might even shake his fist a little.
     
  5. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #5
    What, Mr World Strategic Genius, should your idealized fantasy President actually be doing about this? Declare war on China? Ignore Chinese encroachments (an actual correct use of that word) into the South China Sea? Ban imports from China until they promise to play nice (so long as they keep lending us money by the containership load.)

    Because if all you have to offer by way of comment on this matter is a tired slam barely worthy of Sarah Palin - maybe you ought to read up a little more on the issue.
     
  6. giantfan1224 macrumors 6502a

    giantfan1224

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    #6
    I think someone peed in someone else's cheerios this morning.
     
  7. HEK macrumors 68030

    HEK

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    #7
    You know you will get more intelligent response talking to the wall.
     
  8. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #8
    Have you stopped to think about what is shaping up to be the greatest strategic, geopolitical, economic, and military challenge/opportunity the United States is going to face in the next ~20-30 years?

    Because my bet would be its on how we manage a growing China. One with looming demographic and political problems of its own. And one interested (to say the least) in expanding its influence into the Western Pacific.

    Our relationship with China does not have to be hostile or adversarial. Britain, for instance, managed its relationship with United States during our period of expansion so that it was one of mutual respect and cooperation.

    But we cannot go it alone with China. We need to be seen as part of (and probably leading) the world community in our dealings with China. And there are a multitude of components to that strategy. Some of them are military - like the F35 we'll be flying off our carriers and over our Marines. But a huge part of that is International Agreements and treaties like UNCLOS.

    And I'm frankly sick and tired of know-nothing Republicans and their idiot running dogs tying the hands of this President - and every President to come - with their stupidity and shenanigans. Because if we get into a shooting war with China (a possibility which ought to frighten the snot out of anybody sane) - at least part of the blame is going to be placed at the door of Senate Republicans over the last dozen or so years.
     
  9. giantfan1224 macrumors 6502a

    giantfan1224

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    #9
    I'll take that as an affirmative.
     
  10. jkcerda Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #10
    source
     
  11. webbuzz macrumors 65816

    webbuzz

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    #11
    Day drinking can be fun.
     
  12. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #12
    Here. And here. And here.

     
  13. aaronvan Suspended

    aaronvan

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    #13
    Hey, let's spend a few more trillion dollars on the F-35. That'll scare the Chicoms out of the Pacific and all the way back to Peking.
     
  14. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #14
    Having a strong naval and amphibious military capable is but one (small, but important) part of our relations with China and the rest of Asia.

    But no one factor (and certainly no single weapons system) can or should be the lynchpin of our international relations.

    We don't want the Chinese building illegal naval bases in the Pacific. The International Tribunal in the Hague; and the rest of the International community agree with us on that point. But our argument would be much stronger if the United States itself didn't reject the principles of collective action embodied by the UNCLOS.
     
  15. jkcerda Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #15
    from one of your links
     
  16. Solomani macrumors 68030

    Solomani

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    #16
    Yep. The US is trying to enforce rule of law upon China, but at the same time USA does not want its hands bound by the same laws of UNCLOS.

    Oh well….. I guess China will just keep getting away with un-challeneged expansionism, and no one…. absolutely no state or entity, has moral authority to call them out. Your grandchildren better learn Mandarin, exactly like the SciFi series Firefly…. because the road is paved for China to dominate the planet in the coming decades.
     
  17. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #17
    It doesn't undermine US sovereignty.

    Its an international agreement. One whose actual terms the US Navy, as well as our commercial fishing industry, our cargo fleet, our oil and gas exploration companies, etc. - all scrupulously already adhere to. Because the UNCLOS, in most cases, simply codifies existing International Maritime Law.

    It doesn't hand any power over to the United Nations. The terms of the Treaty, and the rules it encompasses, are already written down. We already live by those rules. The UN can't sit down and start adding new rules to the Treaty.

    The US is a signatory to all sorts of similar International treaties: We have international treaties on things as diverse as the rules of war; of international air travel; and the handling of international child abductions.; on international trade; and the licensing of copyright, patents and trademarks. None of them undermine our Sovereignty any more than the UNCLOS would do. And in most cases, it is the United States who actually makes the rules that go into those treaties. Like on International Air Travel, and child abduction and pharmacological patents.

    The international community is made up of two groups: Those that respect the rule of Law. And the troublemakers - the North Koreas and Chinas. The US needs to stop standing with the scofflaws, and get on the the side of right.
     
  18. Solomani macrumors 68030

    Solomani

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    #18
    This would be sound advice for some pro-Bernie Sanders teens working at Taco Bell. :D
     
  19. jkcerda Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #19
    from post 16
    one of you is wrong.
     
  20. Solomani macrumors 68030

    Solomani

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    #20
    Except for my Taco Bell comments… they are never wrong.
     
  21. unlinked macrumors 6502a

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    #21
    Why would that matter as long as the 9 actual parties to the dispute have signed?
     
  22. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #22
    We are not the ones who are crushed by a ruling that has disappointed the Chinese. They have a lot of other things on their plate just now trying to balance internal economic and political issues. Let them finish their truculent face-saving renunciations of the ruling and step back from from the edge unassisted. It's probably what they mean to do anyway as long as we don't go spike the ball that by all rights belongs to the complainant. We're actually the defense here, not a principal.
     
  23. LovingTeddy macrumors 6502a

    LovingTeddy

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    #23
    We Chinese will never accept the ruling. We will continue do what we do in South China Sea. There is no doubt that the island is belong to us and we Chinese has been there since forever.

    The ruling has no legal rights and we will ignore the ruling.

    In the end the rules we build by westerners and western will only choice decisoknthat benefit to them. So screw the ruling and whatever the international stand. We will do whatever we can do occupy the island. Even that means war between China and western nations. If you guys want to fight we will fight
     
  24. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #24
    Time for the US and China to remember that they need each other as economic partners in a global economy. Economic development good, pranking at proxy wars, bad. Later for the nine-dash hassles.
     
  25. HEK macrumors 68030

    HEK

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    #25

    Looks like China has their own right wing conservative republican like kooks. This gonna get interesting real fast. I can smell the testosterone in the air already. Move over ISIS, we gonna have a real war, make you clowns look like pikers. To hell with killing 50 or 100 we gonna show you killing, 50 or 100 million.
     

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