President Obama orders Guantanamo trials to be halted

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Blue Velvet, Jan 21, 2009.

  1. Blue Velvet Moderator emeritus

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    #1
    Wasting no time and sticking iron-cast true to his word and his stated policy:


    Remember that:

     
  2. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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  3. Blue Velvet thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #3
    Which ones? The innocent and uncharged ones? Or the ones so tortured that their evidence has no legal worth?
     
  4. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #4
    All the ones that their home countries don't want back.
     
  5. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #5
    What about the ones who have been left completely unhinged by their mistreatment?

    Various European countries are offering to take them in.
     
  6. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #6
    Good first move. Now he needs to announce the closing of that national embarrassment.
     
  7. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #7
    Looks like a draft is in the works. Let's hope he goes through with it, which I believe he will.

    http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/28755135/
     
  8. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #8
    I know, I mean... it's been 24 hours now and Obama hasn't closed it! ZOMFG OBAMA'S ALREADY BREAKING HIS CAMPAIGN PROMISES!!!!11!!11!!1!
     
  9. jonbravo77 macrumors 6502a

    jonbravo77

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    #9
    Is that the "crisis"? oh wait, wrong thread... :p
     
  10. Metatron macrumors 6502

    Metatron

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    #10
    Hummm...what to do with people found fighting on the battlefield or trying to kill us? Are you serious?

    Remember, uninformed rebels have no rights under the Geneva Convention so there is no mistreatment. And you will never know the countless amount of intel that saved you are people you know.
     
  11. Silencio macrumors 68020

    Silencio

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    #11
    That fear card is looking pretty tattered around the edges. Time to buy a new deck...

    Those found guilty of fighting against us can spend the rest of their lives in a federal prison.
     
  12. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #12
    <ramble>

    Perhaps you mean "un-uniformed", or out of any known uniform for a soldier??

    What if the protagonists don't subscribe to the G.C.'s definition of 'uniform' for the purposes of war prisoners. Others have been (as has been done in the past) subject to summary trial and execution as spys.

    These days, however, are somewhat more muddled than pitting one country against another. We have a war over a value system, and we dare not loose it.

    </ramble>
     
  13. Metatron macrumors 6502

    Metatron

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    #13
    That statement has nothing to do with fear, but instead doing what is necessary to save the lives of innocents.

    BV: Not to poke or jab, but I have trouble see how there could be any "innocent" prisoners that somehow found themselves surround by enemy combatants or terrorist when we moved in and captured them on the battlefield. Why I imagine the odds exist, there is something to be said about the people you keep company with.

    Yes, thank you for the correction...over zealous typing.
     
  14. Blue Velvet thread starter Moderator emeritus

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    #14

    Do you not know that people were sold to the CIA? Do you not know that people were captured based on an overheard conversation between others?

    Most of these men were not captured on the 'battlefield', and many of them remain uncharged. Some of them have already been set free, entirely innocent, yet tortured.
     
  15. PlaceofDis macrumors Core

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    #15
    i would wager there would be quite a few innocents given that a decent number of these people were handed over to us for bounties of suspicious persons.... from which people wanting money could concoct any sort of tale or suspicion... just a hunch though.

    if there is proof of wrongdoing, then give them their trials, but there is little evidence to convict any of these persons... so they've been left to rot for no reason.
     
  16. Metatron macrumors 6502

    Metatron

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    #16
    You know, it is not like a pawn shop where we just handed out checks for everyone they brought in. There were lots of checks an balances as suspects were held locally and interrogated. Later they were moved to Gitmo after being found to have significant connections and ties to their crimes or those who committed crimes.

    And I agree with you totally about the need of a trial. Give them their trial...we are not barbarians. But for God's sake, keep it out of the civil court. The vast amount of these people are being held because of classified evidence. It can not be submitted in a civil court case without seriously hindering the current mission. This has always bothered me how Americans expect the evidence to be printed in the Wall Street Journal and since it is not, obviously they are innocent. This is why there are military courts...
     
  17. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #17

    These guys have been at gitmo for so long any intellegence methods used are now out-dated. I see no reason not to try them in a court of law.

    Are you afraid your rose colored glasses might get a bit clearer ?
     
  18. Delta608 macrumors regular

    Delta608

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    #18
    And you know this from perhaps being there...?? Maybe serving in one of those theaters..?? Do you even know someone who has served there or worked with intelligence personnel ..?? Huffington Post perhaps, the BBC, NY Times..?? Where they "Sold" to CIA agents..?? or operatives..??
     
  19. Metatron macrumors 6502

    Metatron

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    #19
    As Delta said...and more. The methods of intelligence gathering, outdated or not (by the way, still not outdated) stays classified for decades. The collection methods used by WWII subs are still classified 50 years after the fact.

    It is not that I am trying to play tit for tat with everyone. I just want everyone to know they have been misinformed by media, politicians, and people just making crap up.
     
  20. KingYaba macrumors 68040

    KingYaba

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    #20
    I have to say I am impressed with President Obama.
     
  21. Dmac77 macrumors 68020

    Dmac77

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    #21
    Care to say which ones, and back up your claims? The reports I've heard state just the opposite. Germany and Portugal are considering it. Whereas the Netherlands has flat out refused to accept any detainees.

    It's a truly unfortunate thing that Gitmo is going to be closed. I wonder how Obama will react when one of the "innocent" detainees organizes an attack on the U.S.?

    Don
     
  22. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #22
    So I assume you would feel the same way if US Special Forces -- who often operate out of uniform -- were captured and tortured by Iran?

    You'd say that they have no rights and nothing that could be done to them could be termed mistreatment?

    I think you'd change your hypocritical tune in a hot minute...
     
  23. CalBoy macrumors 604

    CalBoy

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    #23
    Then have the evidence presented in camera in a civilian court.

    There's no need to have these people tried in a military court, especially when we consider how much lower the evidence thresholds are in military courts relative to civilian courts.
    You know, the good old Reverend Niemöller has a lot of good things to say on this subject

    If that's too soon, how about Ben Franklin?

    Truly there are monsters at Guantanamo, and they are us.
    WWII was a declared war with a clear enemy in uniform.

    What we have tried to do under Bush is fight terrorism with the very tools that fuels and stirs up terrorism; the enemy's ranks are now swelled with those who have come to hate Americans because of what has transpired over the last 8 years.
     
  24. Metatron macrumors 6502

    Metatron

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    #24
    You would be incorrect. When a black mission is set, the people who carry out these mission know good and well they are on their own. And as a volunteer military, no one has to be apart that does not want to be.
     
  25. hulugu macrumors 68000

    hulugu

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    #25
    Well, to be more accurate CIA agents were offering cash rewards for Afghani insurgents and Al Qaeda terrorists. Sources have reported that some of the people arrested and "sold" to CIA agents were done in by other tribal factions or for more prosaic reasons, like they had land someone else wanted.
    Typically, the amount was $5,000 US dollars, which in Afghanistan/Pakistan is an incredible amount of money. These people would then be processed in locations such as Baghram AFB and some were sent to Guantanamo Bay.

    Well, according to military sources, some of the prisoners were mentally ill, others were conscripted into the Taliban army and could not afford to bribe their way into the police force, others were simply robbed. A military commander once complained that a number of the prisoners were "mickey mouse" detainees.

    I have no problem keeping Sources and Methods secret. Either read-in the judge or set up a competent tribunal system, but nonetheless we should be following a process that protects us and the accused.

    How do you, or Delta608 know this to be untrue? You say that everyone has been misinformed, but how do you know this is so? What sources are you privy to that disputes this?
     

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