President to Address Nation on Immigration

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Southern Dad, Nov 19, 2014.

  1. Southern Dad macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #1
    The President has announced that he will be taking unilateral action on immigration reform. This could mean up to five million people who violated the sovereignty of our nation may be allowed to stay and work in this country.

    I'm interested to hear how all the "independents" feel about this. We can predict how the republicans feel about it. I'm obviously against it. What will this do to our economy? Will this make it more difficult for job seekers to find work?

    Will this cause a shut down of our government? For which, of course, the Republicans will get blamed. Will the SCOTUS have to get involved? Let's talk about this major change that is getting ready to happen. Unlike many other changes, this one will effect many of us in here. Some negatively and some positively.

    Bigger question, if this stands what will future presidents feel that they can do?
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #2
    1. it will make it harder for those on unemployment to find work.

    2. why would businesses want to increase pay when they have tons of low wage workers available?

    3. the message this sends in the same one Reagan sent, it's ok to break the laws as you see fit, just wait some time & you can become legal.

    4. how the republicans "feel" about it is irrelevant.
     
  3. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #3
  4. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #4
    You need to bring your rhetoric down a notch or two.

    Nobody "violated the sovereignty" of the United States by coming here or staying here illegally. A "violation of the sovereignty" would be the deliberate act of a nation or group of individuals to seize control and/or jurisdiction of some part of the United States. If a billionaire bought an island off the Carolina coast and claimed it was his own country, and not subject to Federal or State law - that would be "violating the sovereignty" of the United States.

    Some of the immigration cases are truly heartbreaking. And far, far removed from the conservative stereotype of Mexicans "sneaking" across the border to steal our jobs and suck up our benefits. There are hundreds of thousands of young people who came to this country as very young children - sometimes literally babies - who have grown up, gone to school, and built lives here - without ever knowing another nation - who are technically illegal. People who look like, and sound like the kids who go to school with your children. Do we want to grab them all, put them on a plane, and deport them to a nation they haven't seen in twenty years, and then only as infants?

    This country was founded by, and built by immigrants. It is only an accident of history that starting in the 1920s the US Govt. stopped allowing mass immigration. So lets not kid ourselves that this is suddenly a new thing.

    But it is now a humanitarian and social issue. Because a significant percentage of your and my neighbors, co-workers, friends, and acquaintances know, or are related to someone who has an immigration issue.

    Sensible, humane immigration reform used to be a bi-partisan issue. Something people of good conscience of either party could debate humanely and decently, with the best interests of families and businesses at heart. I'd recommend we take that approach - rather than accusing millions of people of "violating sovereignty" - when they haven't done anything of the sort.
     
  5. giantfan1224 macrumors 6502a

    giantfan1224

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    #5
    Very well said and I tend to agree but I don't think blanket amnesty by executive order is the right thing to do.
     
  6. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #6
    agreed to both post, blanket amnesty is not the answer . hard to say what would be the correct answer to this complex issue.
     
  7. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #7
    How did that work out for the Native Americans who were here? A poor immigration policy and a weak department of defense cost them this continent.
     
  8. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #8
    do you have any suggestions? feasible suggestions that is.
     
  9. ProfessorHenry macrumors regular

    ProfessorHenry

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    #9
    The US Government is trying to get some additional leverage over US taxpayers and acquire potential citizens who would be more compliant with regard to national security. The US citizens have no one else to blame but themselves.
     
  10. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #10
  11. Southern Dad thread starter macrumors 65816

    Southern Dad

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    #11
    Do what Georgia did... Make it illegal to hire an illegal. Let the states pass and enforce laws against the hiring of illegals. Anyone with employees that do not clear eVerify, you arrest the employer. It's pretty simple. If they can't get work, they'll leave our states and go to wonder places that offer amnesty, you know those havens of liberalism.
     
  12. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #12
    The Native American people were never one unified nation. So making parallels is silly. But historically, North America was seriously underpopulated, given its climate, geographic area, and agricultural potential. It was a human inevitability that the expanding populations of Europe and Asia would move here.

    It is not in the President's power to make immigration law. He cannot simply grant "amnesty" to a single person. He can, however, use his powers to direct the Immigration Service and Justice Department as to how they enforce the immigration laws that are on the books. And to temporarily designate some categories of immigrants as being inappropriate for deportation or other ICE action.

    Our current immigration system is broken. It is up to Congress - now controlled by Republicans - to fix it. If they choose not to co so, then they will have to answer to their constituents and their consciences.

    But if they decide to shut down the Government (again) in a simple pique of rage at a President exercising his lawful authority - then they will have to live with the consequences. And the well deserved scorn of the nation they claim to serve.
     
  13. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #13
    If the Republicans are smart (they are not) they would enter negotiations with the Presdident and the Dems to establish new immigration policies. But instead, they'll lose their collective minds, run amuck, (they can't help it) and alienate more citizens than win over for elections 2 years down the road.

    The owness is on the Republicans to play ball. I'm not a supporter of illegal aliens, but I am also a pragmatist.
     
  14. MacNut macrumors Core

    MacNut

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    #14
    Easy solution, you send all of the newly legal immigrants to New Mexico.
     
  15. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #15
    thought republicans did not take control until NEXT year. why has Obama waited so long to get anything done?
     
  16. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #16
    This will not have any measurable negative affects against the citizens of America.
     
  17. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #17
    because the unemployed who will be competing for jobs with yet 5 million more people don't count?
     
  18. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 603

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    #18
    A scattered 5 million, which many probably are already employed whether on or off the books. Then you have the tons of jobs that illegal immigrants would of already had without any competition from citizens, but were denied based on status.

    Your statement is based on assumption. The same type of assumption that is used on EOE and Affirmative Action, but garner no actual or no measurable proof.

    Also, isn't it the conservatives who state so firmly when arguing minimum wage, that certain jobs an adult shouldn't have in the first place and they brought it on themselves? So why all of the sudden do conservatives favor defending those same types of low income employment for citizens? ;)
     
  19. obeygiant macrumors 68040

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    #19
    Shouldn't they just enforce the current laws on immigration?
     
  20. ProfessorHenry macrumors regular

    ProfessorHenry

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    #20
    Along with minimum wage increase, this will be interesting to watch: several million more people competing for minimum wages and more illegal immigrants taking their place to fill the below-minimum-wage vacuum.
     
  21. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #21
    That argument has been repeated on off for a century. The flaw is in the assumption that these are the same jobs.
     
  22. ProfessorHenry macrumors regular

    ProfessorHenry

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    #22
    These are not the same jobs as long as these folks are here illegally. Once they are legalized, they'll be competing for the same jobs - because of the minimum wage laws (who's gonna take a risk hiring them below min wage?). The not-the-same jobs will go to a new wave of illegal immigrants.
     
  23. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #23
    Actually I'm talking about immigrants versus nativeborn Americans, not illegal versus legal.
     
  24. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #24
    your statement was also based on assumption. its common sense, 5 million more being LEGALLY able to compete for jobs will affect those unemployed.

    ----------

    yeap, whatever jobs the illegals end up leaving will be filled by the rest of the illegals, estimates 12-20 million.
     
  25. APlotdevice, Nov 19, 2014
    Last edited: Nov 19, 2014

    APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #25
    Uh yeah.... NO! Once again, I was NOT talking about illegals.

    Here are the statistics, straight from the Bureau of Labor.
     

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