Presidential Travel Costs: Obama vs Trump

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by oneMadRssn, Mar 17, 2017.

  1. oneMadRssn macrumors 68040

    oneMadRssn

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    #1
    Trump is on pace to spend a BILLION DOLLARS on travel alone. Or, 1000% of what Obama spent. Thanks GOP.

    [​IMG]
     
  2. jkcerda Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #2
    you should thank the DNC for promoting the worse they had to offer.

    anyways cheeto hitler should chill the **** out with his vacation time on our dime :mad:
     
  3. JayMysterio macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #3
    I suppose if 45 really wants to cut some government spending, I can think of where he could find a billion dollars.
     
  4. oneMadRssn thread starter macrumors 68040

    oneMadRssn

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    #4
    No debate from me on that point. The DNC messed up big time.
     
  5. jkcerda Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #5
    problem with trump is that as a millionaire, every weekend can be spent at his mar lago resort & not really be seen as a "vacation" to him :(
     
  6. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #6
    But let's cut 160M for the NEA.. because that will make a dent.
     
  7. oneMadRssn thread starter macrumors 68040

    oneMadRssn

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    #7
    Of the literal thousands of problems with Trump, it is true that is one of them.
     
  8. Rhonindk macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

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    #8
    Let the Press take all the vacation he can.
    That is a thankless job that ages you prematurely.

    Question: does the President get work / life balance? ;)
     
  9. jkcerda Suspended

    jkcerda

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    #9
    he should have thought about that before running
     
  10. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #10
    If you can't handle the pressure of the job - don't run for office.
    He's coming up on his 60 days, right?

    As a normal employee - with his record of lying, angering his colleagues, vacation time and his decisions being challenged - he'd be let go.
     
  11. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #11
    No, but it sends a valuable message to all those people that get weird art-oriented degrees (and accept debt to pay for them) that will never land them even a minimum wage job. This is a true American liability.

    Also do like I did, and skim through the NEA's financial report (https://www.arts.gov/sites/default/files/fy2016-nea-agency-financial-report.pdf).

    Among the interesting things I found:
    - 2016 Total Undelivered Orders, Net, End of Period $ 96,665,726

    (
    4225.60b—Undelivered Orders and Contracts

    Unpaid obligations must represent valid obligations supported by documentary evidence to conform to Section 1311 of Public Law 83-663 (68 Stat. 830). The amount of unpaid obligations represents the amount of orders for goods and services remaining unfilled at fiscal year-end for which the liability has not yet accrued (for definitions, see Section 4220).

    If by the last business day of the fiscal year the ordering or customer agency has not received goods or services for which it has placed an order, the agency must report future payment of funds as a valid obligation in GTAS.
    )
     
  12. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #12
    It definitely sends a message that pursuing one's passion (and art) is not going to be something the country supports. I'm not a fan of such a statement.

    Further - history has told us that many that were "burdens" so to speak and penniless wound up making great contributions to society both before and especially after they died. But yeah - let's make sure the current and future generations knows that pursuing the arts is about business (only)
     
  13. yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #13
    As Cal Newport would say, don't follow your passion (watch his TED speech to understand the context of my rebuttal).

    You can follow your passion, just don't cause a liability to yourself and the nation. And don't expect people to bail you out if you decided to pay $75,000 for a degree in acquarello painitining with medieval specialization.
     
  14. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #14
    You keep acting as if the NEA and other organizations are bailing people out. Maybe you're not clear on what the NEA does or how minute of an example you're making as a "rule."

    In short - you're talking about two different things. Those that pursue art and the NEA. There are many people you don't think should get bailouts that don't benefit at all from the NEA. Follow?
     
  15. oneMadRssn thread starter macrumors 68040

    oneMadRssn

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    #15
    That's way too hyperbolic. I know very good engineers that have art degrees as their undergrad, or started as liberal arts majors. Indeed, I think the best programmers don't major in computer science or computer engineering, but rather come over from a more liberal arts field. Computer science teaches you how to code well, but it doesn't do much for creativity or giving you broad knowledge from which to draw.

    I support people getting an education, no matter what the discipline is, as long as it is legitimate and taken seriously by the student. We should never discourage people from getting educated. Want to study to be an electrician? Go for it. Want to study music performance? Go for it. Want to study physics and work for NASA? Go for it. Want to study nordic literature? Go for it. Any of those are better than no education at all.
     
  16. yaxomoxay, Mar 17, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017

    yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #16
    Pursuing the arts is noble. I love the arts, I love going to museums, and I love reading, admire paintings, etc. Heck I grew up in a place that had art literally at every corner!!! I walked past stuff made by Leonardo every day just to go to school. Furthermore, my sister and her husband are both artists, and they also teach art at an Academy in Italy. The brothers of my father in law are both Directors of two important academies in Italy.
    Not one of them told me that those degrees are useful. Not one of them told me that those few $$$ paid by the various government entities are good for the art. They know very well where the bunch of the money actually go.

    I am not against going to an art school. What I am against to is to consider art without any thought about the business part. Read Van Gogh's letter. Read about Leonardo, Donatello and the other Ninja Turtles ;). Heck, look at Mozart or Beethoven. They really knew the business part of their passion. They were not crazy poor artists just for the sake of it. Even J.K. Rowlings talked strongly against this concept of following the passion even at the cost of being the poor artist.

    Go to art school, but do it in a way that it gives you freedom as an artist, not burdens.

    --- Post Merged, Mar 17, 2017 ---
    I know very well what the NEA does. I put my signature on the paperwork for a grant (this year for Senior Art) that we received, about two weeks ago. Please don't make assumptions that my opinion is foolishly based purely on political ideology.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 17, 2017 ---
    Well, you're also being a little bit hyperbolic.
    There are several factors to consider.
    1) School is expensive. If you don't have the cash for it and you accept debt, you need to find the money quick to fix the liability as soon as possible. Just a two second googling:
    "The Economist reported in June 2014 that U.S. student loan debt exceeded $1.2 trillion, with over 7 million debtors in default. In 2014, there was approximately $1.3 trillion of outstanding student loan debt in the U.S. that affected 44 million borrowers who had an average outstanding loan balance of $37,172."
    People need to understand how this impact not only the nation, but also their own life. This is an insane liability for a newly graduated student, AND for the nation... with the important detail that student loans can't be forgiven.

    2) True, I also worked with engineers that had liberal art majors. Again, I am certainly not against liberal art majors, I am against the "crazy" liberal art majors, as I said. It's different. You will certainly agree that most of those engineers have 'regular' art degree majors. English, History, or Psychology/Sociology (if done under the arts etc). Those are resellable even in the engineering market, especially if you have tech certifications. An English degrees not only opens the doors to many teaching jobs all across america - often decently paid - but also confirm a broad knowledge. Many degrees do NOT offer a specialization that is re-sellable AND at the same time do NOT offer a 'broad knowledge' degree.

    3) Of course no education is worse than some education. But Education is not merely a degree. I will never discourage people from getting an education. What I discourage them from is from getting an education degree that will bound them at the lower spectrum of the workforce thus removing their freedom to enhance their education.
     
  17. ibookg409 Suspended

    ibookg409

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    #17
    Trump should cover the cost of his stays in Florida.
     
  18. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #18
    I thought he was the "Blue Collar Billionaire" as Fox was touting for months....
    --- Post Merged, Mar 17, 2017 ---
    To which I have to ask, at what point do we admit that the USA is a class-bound society?
     
  19. oneMadRssn thread starter macrumors 68040

    oneMadRssn

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    #19
    I think we in general agree, but place the crux of the issue at different spots.

    Correct me if I'm mischaracterizing what you're saying, but as I understand it, you're arguing that it is the responsibility of the student to forecast future demand and value of a given education and balance that with their own hopes, dreams, values, and goals, and ultimately choose an educational path.

    I am arguing that the it is the responsibility of our educational institutions, with some help from government, to ensure that all reasonable education pathways are affordable to all ready, willing, and serious students; and to guide those students into the right path through various incentives and influences.

    First, I don't think it is reasonable to expect 17 year olds to be making decisions about their future careers and debts, or to make the necessary forecasts that would be required to make a good decision for themselves. I went to a private college, I loved it, and it worked out well for me, but dammit I'm still paying for it. I don't regret it, but in hindsight I probably could have gone to UMass Amherst engineering for a third of the cost and ended up in relatively the same place as I am today. I approached Law School much more frugally. I choose to go to a school below my "rank" (e.g., I had above average GPA and test scores for this school) but where I got essentially a full scholarship and the full attention of the professors. I wasn't even capable of that kind of strategic thinking at 17, and I come from very well education parents. It must be impossible to make those decisions if you plan on being a first-generation college student.

    Second, I agree that some liberal arts degrees have a less economic value than others. That said, I think economic incentives are the right way to handle this. For example: Imagine if Universities charged you 5% of your future income for the next 20 years. Or, imagine if government loan programs were capped at the % of enrollees. Sorry, only 0.8% of graduating senior class of high school students can major in medieval european poetry, and we have already maxed out. Or, imagine if there was a law that required universities to give students itemized bills rather than a flat-rate, and students could opt-out of the extravagant extras. Each extra-curricular, club, social, whatever would have a cost, each dorm would have a cost, each meal would have a cost, each amenity would have a cost. Frugal students can be wise, and government can choose not to loan money out for meals cooked by guest chefs from michelin star rated restaurants on campus.

    Third, tieing the above two together, cost of education is out of control. Rather than passing onerous regulation on the industry, we should prop up the public option - state schools and community colleges. State schools should be the gold standard, they should be the schools everyone wants to go to. Community colleges should be adequately funded to actually provide a decent education. Too many aren't. Private schools should be filling the gap between state schools and community colleges, rather than leading the pack.
     
  20. Rhonindk macrumors 68020

    Rhonindk

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    #20
    I am sure he did. Still, you need to fit some "down time" in. Maybe he is a bit needy in that aspect. ;)
     
  21. yaxomoxay, Mar 17, 2017
    Last edited: Mar 17, 2017

    yaxomoxay macrumors 68000

    yaxomoxay

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    #21
    Nice try, but I am talking about the workforce, which in 99.9% of the workplaces is hierarchical and often wages reflect it.
    --- Post Merged, Mar 17, 2017 ---
    I agree with virtually everything you said. You are talking about the other side of the equation, which is the responsibilities of the education system (more specifically, higher education). I am with you on this. I think that the vulture attitude of many universities is borderline criminal. 18 yo kids, without any real world experience, apply for a debt which is much bigger than them... and the universities encourage it! Worse, different universities will tell the kids different things (for God's sake, I can't stand that even the codes for the same courses are different depending on the university, confusing both students and counselors). It is also irresponsible how they offer those courses, and the type of courses that are offered
    A Major in Veterinary Psychiatry... for real?

    If you have the time, watch this important speech. It's mainly related to the dept. of History, but what he says is both interesting and depressing at the same time:
     
  22. Macky-Mac macrumors 68030

    Macky-Mac

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    #22
    it's not a vacation......he's at Mar-a-Lago promoting his business!

    source
     
  23. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #23
    Careful there, can't have any democracy at work....where people spend 1/3rd of their non-sleeping adult lives.
     
  24. MadeTheSwitch macrumors 6502a

    MadeTheSwitch

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    #24
    So he has what.....about 9 months left on the job then? :D

    Knowing the stress of the job and how it ages you, I don't know why someone old would want the job. Obama ended up with a bunch of wrinkles and grey hair. In Trump's case, his after term picture is going to look more like this:


    IMG_2024.JPG
     
  25. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #25
    Doubt it. Not the way that guy eats fast food
     

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