Pretty funny - Mexico wall will keep drugs out.


sdwaltz

macrumors 6502a
Apr 29, 2015
736
982
Indiana
It will greatly assist in keeping PEOPLE out, though, which is the #1 intention of the wall. I don't care about drugs coming over the border, we should legalize or at least decriminalize most of them anyway.

"But what about ladders?"

...if someone has to put a ladder on the wall, climb the ladder, bring the ladder over to the other side, and climb down, that greatly increases the amount of time it'll take for them to cross...reasonably affording border patrol more time to stop them from crossing.

Plus there's that whole part where carrying a ladder is a pain in the a$$ and blatantly obvious.
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
It will greatly assist in keeping PEOPLE out, though, which is the #1 intention of the wall. I don't care about drugs coming over the border, we should legalize or at least decriminalize most of them anyway. ...
I think you're on to something with your thoughts on decriminalization.

We could decriminalize illegal immigration and save tens of billions of dollars on a border wall.
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors 604
Oct 27, 2009
7,433
8,606
People and Drugs have been tunneling their way in since .......FOREVER!!!! I doubt this wall is deep or strong enough to stop it. But ordinary people don't have access to them.

This will only heighten people trafficking, which means even more boys and men will commit crimes within the states at a gang's bidding, due to being in debt toward trafficking organizations. And the same with women, added on to more forced prostitution.

Trump is doing nothing but helping criminal enterprise.
 
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hulugu

macrumors 68000
Aug 13, 2003
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quae tangit perit Trump
It will greatly assist in keeping PEOPLE out, though, which is the #1 intention of the wall. I don't care about drugs coming over the border, we should legalize or at least decriminalize most of them anyway.

"But what about ladders?"

...if someone has to put a ladder on the wall, climb the ladder, bring the ladder over to the other side, and climb down, that greatly increases the amount of time it'll take for them to cross...reasonably affording border patrol more time to stop them from crossing.

Plus there's that whole part where carrying a ladder is a pain in the a$$ and blatantly obvious.
A few thoughts:

Portable or foldable ladders exist. There's also something called a "pole ladder" used for military breaching, which can be broken down into pieces and quickly deployed.

And, you don't need the ladder on the U.S. side, you can use a length of rope to quickly let someone rappel into the United States. All along the border, you'll see knots at the top of the wall where someone tied a sheet or rope at the top of the current 18-24' border fence.

Moreover, you can either hide the ladder(s) in a house or structure and then wait until a Border Patrol vehicle passes before attempting to cross. There was a spot near El Paso where handmade wooden ladders were routinely stored, all handmade in Juarez.

Out in the desert, north of Altar, Sonora, people routinely take buses to spots along the desert—all controlled by the local plaza—and then wait until nightfall before they quickly climb up the fence. The plaza there is highly professionalized, and I'd assume that they'd just make a bunch of pole ladders for people to climb up and over.

Granted, a 30-foot wall will stump some people, but that only works if the wall is sustained across the border, a situation that is almost impossible under the current "bollard" fence.

Moreover, I see at least one design that could topple in a good monsoon, and the concrete one will be impossible to build in the mountain ranges.

The focus on the wall ignores another important point. The biggest problem in apprehensions is the lack of useful roads and much of that is subject to terrain. For instance, near Nogales, the rugged rolling hills make it very difficult for an agent in his Chevy Tahoe or Dodge K-unit to quickly move from one spot to another.

This is why the agency has preferred "defense in depth" where agents have time between the moment a person is spotted to apprehension. A wall doesn't help this, but provides as many agents have called it, "a speed bump." At a cost of nearly $70 billion, creating a "speed bump" doesn't seem like a useful strategy.

And, that's without addressing the massive environmental destruction that such a wall will create along the borderlands.

It's a goofy, unrealistic answer to a serious legal problem.

As for drugs, there's a couple of guys in Agua Prieta currently operating an air cannon, and they've been launching loads of drugs into the United States, up and over the current 18-20-foot high bollard fence.

I don't think they'll be stumped by a taller wall.

Hidden sensor networks, backed by good communications, and a robust layer of agents would actually mitigate the smuggling of drugs and people along the border. But, that hasn't caught the imagination of the GOP.
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People and Drugs have been tunneling their way in since .......FOREVER!!!! I doubt this wall is deep or strong enough to stop it. But ordinary people don't have access to them.

This will only heighten people trafficking, which means even more boys and men will commit crimes within the states at a gang's bidding, due to being in debt toward trafficking organizations. And the same with women, added on to more forced prostitution.

Trump is doing nothing but helping criminal enterprise.
Right. The current enforcement regime has pushed migrants to human smuggling organizations, while compressing the space between drug smugglers and migrants. At the same time, the new regime has made crossing more expensive, and that means people come into the United States with far more debt.

Moreover, we also should note that border enforcement has increased the number of illegal immigrants in the country, as far fewer people try to return home to Mexico since the journey has become so risky. This has strained family relationships in Mexico, and shifted what used to be a seasonal population into permanence.

And, even if we assume that the border becomes "Secure" we need to ask, how many of miles of coastline does the United States have?
 

GermanSuplex

macrumors 6502a
Aug 26, 2009
963
9,937
Just put up a picket fence and a “Beware of Dog” sign. Much cheaper and probably more effective than a “big, beautiful wall”.
 
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hulugu

macrumors 68000
Aug 13, 2003
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Nope, offering an argument that if California wants open borders we should test it out in their state first, and wall off the rest of the US from them.
This is still an absurd argument that relies on a strawman.

You really don't understand that the idea that the United States would "wall off" one of the states is fundamentally absurd?
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
This is still an absurd argument that relies on a strawman.

You really don't understand that the idea that the United States would "wall off" one of the states is fundamentally absurd?
They are a sanctuary state now. They aren't following the law of the land anyways, and will likely obstruct the southern border building anyways.
 

hulugu

macrumors 68000
Aug 13, 2003
1,819
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quae tangit perit Trump
They are a sanctuary state now. They aren't following the law of the land anyways, and will likely obstruct the southern border building anyways.
This is a different argument. You're shifting the goal posts around.

You stated that they wanted "open borders." A sanctuary state—where state and local law enforcement officials are not required to hold people using civil detainer requests—is not the same as "open borders."

Moreover, California and other localities are clearly following the law. This is why AG Sessions has tried to use the power of the purse, namely Justice Assistance Grants, to force states and localities to comply with ICE detainers. If the DOJ could sue states and cities for failing to follow the law, don't you think they would?

They cannot. This is why the ICE Director recently announced that his agency would increase workplace raids, because he knows he cannot legally force cities to detain people—the Fourth Amendment issues are fairly clear here. Instead wants to use raids as a punishment in a fit of pique.

Moreover, the state is suing the federal government over development of the wall—ignoring of course, that much of California's border already has a robust fencing system, including the double-layer fences, bollard fencing, and anti-vehicle Normandy barriers.

In San Diego sector alone, 46 miles of the 60 mile border there has fencing.

And, really if we could legally wall off a U.S. state, don't you think we would have sealed the Florida state border by now?
 

citizenzen

macrumors 65816
Mar 22, 2010
1,433
11,628
California wants open borders and to provide government services for everyone for free, whats the problem?
Source please.
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Why not go one step even further and decriminalize everything and save a fortune on police and prisons.
That will never happen. The U.S. prison industry would never allow it.

No, we'll continue to lock up more citizens than any other nation on earth because we have a very distorted idea about what freedom means.
 

stylinexpat

macrumors 68000
Mar 6, 2009
1,587
2,451
Drones easily fly over walls. They can fly drugs over the Wall very easily. Pretty soon drones can lift human over walls too.
 

Zombie Acorn

macrumors 65816
Feb 2, 2009
1,301
9,062
Toronto, Ontario
Source please.
Source for open borders? They just passed a state sanctuary law. That means they do not want the feds to deport anyone who crossed the border illegally. This would be like passing out beer to teenagers and saying you don't promote drinking.
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Why bother when most just fly in on commercial planes and then overstay their visa?
This is false. Most illegals currently in the US crossed the southern border. You guys are taking a recent uptick in fly in/visa overstays and trying to apply it to the 11-20 million people problem in the states.
 

Bug-Creator

macrumors 6502a
May 30, 2011
550
2,129
Germany
Most illegals currently in the US crossed the southern border.
All the wall is doing to those is making sure that they won't visit their families.

The wall is supposed to stop future illegal immigration, which is all ready happening by other means then jumping the fence.