Prison Economics Help Drive Ariz. Immigration Law

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by mrkramer, Oct 28, 2010.

  1. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #1
    Interesting article on NPR today about the history of the Arizona immigration bill. I'm not really sure what to say, there's apparently nothing illegal about this, but there should be, and I still wonder why we have private prisons. I quoted a few parts, but you should read the rest.

    http://www.npr.org/templates/story/story.php?storyId=130833741&ps=cprs
     
  2. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #2
    Privately run prisons and the fact that detention has actually become an industry in this country scare the **** out of me.
     
  3. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    I'm sure fivepoint will be all for it! We have to get more people in prison! There's money to be made! :rolleyes:

    Crap like this should be illegal. This is disgusting.
     
  4. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #4
    Privately run prisons are terrifying. I watched a documentary about a private youth detention center in Pennsylvania—the local judges were in bed with the prison company and getting kickbacks ($3 million in the end I believe) for giving long sentences to teenage offenders. Lots of local kids were serving big sentences for crimes that would not even necessarily have a sentence otherwise. ********** scary stuff. One more reason why privatization is not the answer.
     
  5. mcrain macrumors 68000

    mcrain

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    #5
    But the founding father's original intent was for the right-wing packed supreme court to allow corporations to make and spend as much money as they possibly can! That's why we fought for independence! Don'tcha know?

    (Sorry, I was channeling FP)
     
  6. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #6
    Not to mention that the prisons were somehow legally able to extend those kids sentences as they saw fit, with no legal review, and no oversight whatsoever. I'm sorry, but certain things will just be abused when handed over to the private sector. Take a look at healthcare.
     
  7. bruinsrme macrumors 601

    bruinsrme

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    #7
    Fix the root cause, then this would be a non-topic
     
  8. OutThere macrumors 603

    OutThere

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    #8
    Forgot about that detail...the detention center was allowed to extend the sentence arbitrarily if they felt that the kids weren't 'rehabilitated'. Ridiculous and twisted.
     
  9. Gelfin macrumors 68020

    Gelfin

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    #9
    So they talked about the amount of money each prisoner would represent to he community. But isn't prison always a drain on a community? The entire premise of a private prison is that the "free market" drives costs down (right), so the community is paying less by contracting out the service, but not making money off it.

    If the community is turning a profit, I'm reading into it the assumption that the prisoners will be compelled to earn their keep. This is truly insidious, the turning point from the two-faced approach that for decades has publicly excoriated illegal immigrants, but not done anything about it so that we can continue exploiting them for cheap labor, to a policy of enslaving them outright. The 13th Amendment does not protect "prisoners" and the law does not require them to be paid minimum wage.

    Soon, rather than take the risk of hiring illegal immigrants directly, a farm will be able to legally contract for a chain gang of lawfully arrested illegal immigrants at half the criminally low wage they would have paid those same workers before their arrest. And the same industry can lobby to keep immigration policy and enforcement as slow and Byzantine as possible, both to increase violations and reduce the deportation rate, thus requiring the maximum possible amount of detention services. They can also turn marketing resources to media campaigns demonizing illegal immigrants to the public, who will demand more police resources be devoted to arresting them, but the public doesn't care what happens to them once they're off the street.

    We should be proud. It's taken a hundred and fifty years for someone to figure out how to bring legal slavery back to America. That's quite a day's work. It is truly ingenious, and just about the most evil thing I've ever heard.
     
  10. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #10
    It's about as evil as it gets.
     
  11. mactastic macrumors 68040

    mactastic

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    #11
    Yeah, that's a morally reprehensible business model all right.

    Imprisoning people for profit in general is a morally reprehensible business model.

    And here's the biggest problem with such a business model: How does a business succeed? By growing both revenue and profits. In most circumstances, this is desirable. But if the way you increase revenue is to increase the volume of the incarcerated, you are going to have pushes like this by private corporations with their own interests -- as opposed to the public interest, as government has -- to legislate more and more things as crimes, and to increase penalties as well. Anything that could potentially be criminalized would eventually be targeted by corporate-sponsored legislation. Which, of course, Citizen's United just unleased the floodgates for.

    And then on the profit side, how does one increase profits in a business like this? Spend as little as possible per inmate, right? That means poorly trained and equipped guards, minimal facility costs, minimal maintenance costs, minimal food costs, maximizing density and population size, etc. All ingredients to a recipe for disaster, in addition to providing a bountiful source of people who can be described as if-they-weren't-criminals-when-they-went-in-they-are-now types, since rehabilitation will be very low on the list of priorities if profit is on the line. Besides, recidivists mean more profits!

    Oh, and what's another way to increase profits? Put those prisoners to work! Pay them pennies on the dollar compared to the unincarcerated. Prisoners have little rights as it is.

    I would hope we can all agree that providing economic incentives to incarcerate ever-increasing numbers of people is a bad thing; despite that being the free-market solution. Obviously privatizing is a cornerstone of conservative philosophy. But so is maximizing liberty; and incentivizing the business community to find ways to lock others up would seem to fly against that lofty goal. Unless, of course, you're convinced that the free market will be content to only lock up those OTHER people. Surely common decency would prevent profiteers from coming after Real Americans? That's what the prison industry is counting on...
     
  12. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #12
    US prisons are overflowing as it is, customer supply isn't the issue. Illegal immigrants need to be thrown out on their asses, not soaking up more tax payer money.
     
  13. Sydde macrumors 68020

    Sydde

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    #13
    But thrown out where? If we deport them back to Mexico, they will just sidle along the fence to California or New Mexico and pop right back in. So we should incarcerate them and use them formenial labor to prevent them from stealing jobs from Americans... um...
     
  14. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #14
    Good idea. We'll just create a system whereby they all become legal citizens, pay their taxes, and we'll all be the better for it.

    That's what you meant, right?
     
  15. Don't panic macrumors 603

    Don't panic

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    #15
    nah, i think he meant dispose of the excess nuclear weaponry by dropping them on the center of origin of immigrants, and then sell them a clean up plan.
     
  16. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #17
    Lets force them to make things while they're IN prison.

    And if we can repeal these mamby pampy liberal laws which grant citizenship to immigrant's children. THEN we can force the children to make things to.

    If we encourage enough of these prison inmates to have kids we'll be able to significantly reduce our dependence on china for the production of cheap goods.
     
  17. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #18
    Except most of them wouldn't owe taxes anyways, I am not sure what the obsession with taking on millions of poor uneducated lawbreakers is.
     
  18. iJohnHenry macrumors P6

    iJohnHenry

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    #19
    Castrate them before you kick them out, and let them spread the word down in Mexico.

    Problem solved.

    :rolleyes:
     
  19. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #20
    Indeed, so let's have the people that do pay taxes pay to kick all 12 million out. That makes more sense, right?

    And since when did uneducated necessarily imply unskilled?

    Finally, I don't see Americans having an aversion to supporting uneducated lawbreakers. Why the hell else would Jersey Shore be so popular?
     
  20. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #21
    What is your definition of skilled? We have plenty of "skilled" workers that are on unemployment right now. Give them a paint brush and a nail gun and I think we will be fine.
     
  21. chrmjenkins macrumors 603

    chrmjenkins

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    #22
    Where you use "uneducated" to imply that the workers are solely a drain on our society, I use "skilled" to indicate that the workers have experience and a desire to do the jobs they do for a small wage. Those on unemployment would not have the same experience and not be fit for the same jobs. This assumes, of course, that the wages provided by these jobs is even livable or above what unemployment is for them.
     

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