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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Iscariot, Jun 25, 2008.
Well, at least if they openly advertise as such at least customers know which pharmacy to avoid so they won't run into a dangerous, egotistical, self-righteous f**k behind the counter dispensing lectures instead of medicine.
I have never understood the correlation between "pro-life" and use of contraception's. Add in the fact that many babies, born into poverty, which are subject to a life of malnutrition, lack of education, and often crime, which the pro-lifers' later despise, and can hardly wait to imprison, and you have the greatest example of hypocrisy in this country. These people make my blood boil.
The reason you don't understand is that these drug stores and people aren't pro-life, they're anti-sex. Let's call it what it is, please.
It is a private business. They have every right to sell which products they want, and to keep those they don't want off of the shelves. The better question here is why you want to trample the constitution and the liberties afforded to us by a democratic government.
This isn't a pro-life / pro-choice argument. It is a freedom argument. If the person who owns that business doesn't want to sell contraceptives... then that is their right. Just like we wouldn't force a Jewish grocery store owner to sell pork, or a muslim store owner a crucifix.
Government has no right to stick their nose in this issue.
Speaking of not understanding...
this is only partly true.
if you are a pharmacist, you have an ethical and moral obligation to fill presciptions (the legal part is being discussed). If you are not ready to do that, than by all means you should NOT be allowed to be a pharmacist.
over the counter drugs are maybe a little bit different, but i cannot see any ethical and moral reason whatsoever that should limit the availability of condoms, for example. It's sheer stupidity, and it comes at a great social and medical cost.
Who wants to do this?
I'm sure that would be very comforting to a raped woman. Go freedom and self-righteousness.
And they're not are they ?
Yeah they're not as much anti-sex as they are pro-disease. Pro-disease pharmacies.
So, you don't agree with freedom of religion?
The constitution does protect freedom of religion, freedom of expression, a free-market, and capitalism the last time I checked. What's being suggested here is nothing more than facism... the government mandating that businesses sell specific products, even if it goes against the business owner's religion.
I hate faces.
p.s. you also don't know what fascism is.
Of course, that must be it.
Listen, I'm not arguing that the anti-contraception stance is exactly the best thing that has ever been proposed, but at least I've taken the time to understand *why* people believe in it. Ignorance surely must be bliss.
Pay close attention to your next comment. You won't have to wait long to find out 'Who?'
Oh snap! It's YOU! You're the one! You see... you are justifying the cripling of the constitution/bill of rights in the name of of rape. By doing so you are are just as bad as those who start wars under false-pretences under the flag of 'safety'. You need to look at the big picture. Is saving a few girls from having 'rape babies' (or having to drive a few more miles to get the pills they need) worth trampling the freedoms, liberties, and ideals of our country? Do not mistake my apparent 'hard stance' as not caring, or as being cold to her plight... just the opposite. I want her and maybe some day her kids to grow up in the country that was promised to them, and not one where the government tells them what to do, and h ow to do it.
People like you frighten me... because each and every day this happens. We are losing our liberties inch by inch... in the name of things that will 'help us'... and you don't bat an eye. As long as the liberty being crushed doesn't affect your life to much, it's no big deal. But just you wait, soon enough, it will... and then you'll be the one complaining and no one will be listening. If there is anything worth fighting for guys, this is it. Our freedoms.
What on earth do the tinpot beliefs of a pharamacist have to do with a raped girl?
So it was a made up the strawman for the sake of argument. At least your honest.
You've lost me.
Hilarious. Providing judgement free health care is a slippery slide into a loss of liberties . In my clinic I'll be sure not to treat smokers, christians, and assorted ethnicities and people named bob.
Too late to delete man... I already quoted you.
Do you have a point . I'm not about to delete anything although I am starting to be befuddled. Do you want to discuss the topic or just be hyperbolic and inflammatory?
Exactly. And yes, these people are anti-sex and pro-ignorance. I understand it completely. I was raised in a fundamentalist Christian family. Believe me- I know what these people stand for.
I'm with you Lee. Nothing irks me more than fellow healthcare providers deciding what is and isn't worth treating due to their beliefs. You leave that rubbish at the door when you've providing an essential community service. Each and every patient deserves to be assessed, educated, treated, and provided follow-up equally and with the same respect and confidentiality. It's the same for all arms of healthcare.
This particular story doesn't bother me, because I know that there are other pharmacies that will fill whatever prescription a doctor has prescribed. I'm glad that people, and companies, have moral freedoms, because I don't want mine taken away.
I do applaud this business for standing up for what they believe to be right. I disagree with their decision to keep contraceptives off the shelves, but I agree with their decision to facilitate saving of lives. I do not think that because one crime was committed (rape), that another more horrendous one should be committed (killing a baby). That is totally illogical to me in a civilized society.
And, I'm sorry, leekohler, but I disagree with your statement
I don't think that is true. There are some pharmacists, and other people, like me, who believe that one should use their talents and education to heal, not to kill. Like I said before, I don't understand not carrying contraceptives, (they should simply only sell to say, 18 and over?) but I do agree with their refusal to dispense life-ending drugs.
Of course, imho, there are way too many drugs prescribed by doctors that do much more harm than good. If it were me, I'd be counseling people on their diet and exercise, explaining how they can cure themselves without drugs, but that's another thread.
I was pleased to read your entire post, but this comment is especially important. Thank you for sharing your views.
That fact that they refuse to sell contraceptives illustrates my statement perfectly. They don't want anyone to have sex for pleasure, and if they do, there must be consequences- a disease or a child. The message is loud and clear redwarrior. I don't see how it could be misinterpreted.
What's next? Will they refuse to sell AIDS drugs to people who need them?
Personally I have no problem with these "pharmacists" doing this provided that there is another pharmacy within a reasonable distance (less than 50 miles, preferably less than 20) that will fill the prescriptions.
For one, you know which pharmacy not to go to, and it will attract the pharmacists who feel the need to push their own morality on their customers, while the other pharmacy doesn't have to worry as much about being sued for religious discrimination because they wouldn't hire someone who will fill every prescription.
They have their right to open their business and supply the product they want to supply, just as every woman on earth has the right to not shop there.
I do have a problem if there is no alternative pharmacy within a reasonable distance. I've known women to be on birth control for a variety of reasons some of which have nothing to do with having sex or getting pregnant, why should they be denied their prescription? What if an allergy medicine can lead to miscarriage? Will they refuse to give that to any woman because she might become pregnant at any time?
I don't want the only pharmacy in town to be able to overrule my doctor and refuse to fulfill a prescription. I understand if they have concerns and want to consult my doctor to make sure everything was accounted for (forgotten drug allergy, reactions with other medications I might have taken recently) but if there's only one choice in town the Doctor's final decision should be honored.
Up here, even "free" health care providers are allowed, with good cause, to "fire" a patient that continually ignores a doctor's directives.
Let them find another doctor, with time to waste.
PS: I too am suspicious of "Bob"s, and avoid them at every opportunity.
People don't stop being human because they make the choice to go into health care, at least I hope they don't. We are conscious, moral, creatures. Everyone has some form of belief system of what is right and wrong. No one should be made to go against what they believe is right, especially in this situation. A pharmacist can do so much good in every other area; it is wrong to require him to do something that would haunt him for the rest of his life, especially since the patient can walk next door and get the prescription filled with no problem. (If that were not the case, I would seriously reconsider my position on this, but that fact makes this easy for me!)
And, from the standpoint of a woman who has gone through some of this. It is much better to teach young people to abstain from sex until they are physically and mentally able to handle it, than to give a give a morning after pill. It seems like an easy solution at the time, but she will deal with that decision for the rest of her life. The doctor won't, and the pharmacist won't. While I think it is the parents' and child's responsibility to make these decisions, and not the doctor's or pharmacist's, it is wrong to require someone to violate their conscience and end a life. After all, the doctor who prescribes the drugs is doing it based on his beliefs.
The same issue arises with children with(?) ADHD. Medicine is subjective to the beliefs and even education of the provider.
And leekohler, to me it is more an issue of selling contraceptives to minors. Having said that though, this also really scares me, knowing that if they can't get contraceptives, they will have sex anyway. And that leads to not only babies, but now deadly diseases. (The fear of these diseases was almost non-existent when you a I were teenagers!) It's a difficult issue to deal with as a parent, but again, I reiterate, the customer can go next door and buy whatever they require.
I am Christian. (Stop that Lee, i saw that eye-roll!) I am against government regulation of what a merchant or health care provider can say or do. We are thinking individuals and should use our intellect and common sense and prevent the government from attempting to be our moral conscience.
Ok, what did I leave out?
It all comes down to the meaning of life and the fact that every sperm is sacred.