iPhone Problems with wife’s reliable 7 after a force install of 13.x by apple

[rjjacobson]

So my wife uses a 7 128 GB AT&T. She is not techy and does not update it or use security features (no major accounts or money or personal data) its a phone to text kids, grandkids, play games, take pictures and phone calls.

So I will start with beginning. Two nights ago phone was plugged in (but I guess plug fell out — more on that in a minute). anyway during night apple forced the 13.1.2 upgrade on her phone with 12.4.1. I have all auto updates off, and to boot her charger block sometimes falls out of wall socket where she likes to plug it in. So it was on our Wi-Fi (cell signal not best at our house so I have used this for most of our iPhones way back). Apple forced download and upgrade during night and she was faced with setup screen in morning while I was still sleeping. She was unclear about fingerprint stuff since I usually do updates and setups because she does not want the security features operating. It got stuck in that mode so I rebooted and got it back to start and by passed all that got to app screen and phone said it was way below 10 percent and it autoshut off and I had to plug in. Weird was that in less than hour it was supposedly at 100 percent???

But I Did not think of it til this morning when she complained of larger than normal battery draining. I look at the battery app and all of a sudden apple has flagged this as a battery needing service? WTF? It said an abnormal shutdown (day before that I mention above) and battery appeared to need service and was operating at 86 percent of what it was new. It was fine up til the forced update. I had those turned off because 12.4.1 was doing her great and she had no battery drain issues or problems.

So I look at threads here and in other places and see this issue with 13.x in older phones that had not any issues and they have them. I read that apple says in some cases its a false positive but still recommends battery replacements at near $100. I got this phone several years after for her at walmart at about $100 or so. No way I am gonna pay another $100 so we will live with it for now. But I am now wondering if apple is really trying to get folks to upgrade hardware that is 4-5 years old? I am using a new 11 Pro Max and getting awesome life but then I am a techie nerd and use my iUP each year.

I tested 13.x on my iPad Pro but not old Xs and now have 11 Pro Max with 13.1.2 and no problems with the new big battery. But my wife not happy at apple forcing update and problems with battery that the new battery app says exist and the noticeable drain.

 

[C DM]

So my wife uses a 7 128 GB AT&T. She is not techy and does not update it or use security features (no major accounts or money or personal data) its a phone to text kids, grandkids, play games, take pictures and phone calls.

So I will start with beginning. Two nights ago phone was plugged in (but I guess plug fell out — more on that in a minute). anyway during night apple forced the 13.1.2 upgrade on her phone with 12.4.1. I have all auto updates off, and to boot her charger block sometimes falls out of wall socket where she likes to plug it in. So it was on our Wi-Fi (cell signal not best at our house so I have used this for most of our iPhones way back). Apple forced download and upgrade during night and she was faced with setup screen in morning while I was still sleeping. She was unclear about fingerprint stuff since I usually do updates and setups because she does not want the security features operating. It got stuck in that mode so I rebooted and got it back to start and by passed all that got to app screen and phone said it was way below 10 percent and it autoshut off and I had to plug in. Weird was that in less than hour it was supposedly at 100 percent???

But I Did not think of it til this morning when she complained of larger than normal battery draining. I look at the battery app and all of a sudden apple has flagged this as a battery needing service? WTF? It said an abnormal shutdown (day before that I mention above) and battery appeared to need service and was operating at 86 percent of what it was new. It was fine up til the forced update. I had those turned off because 12.4.1 was doing her great and she had no battery drain issues or problems.

So I look at threads here and in other places and see this issue with 13.x in older phones that had not any issues and they have them. I read that apple says in some cases its a false positive but still recommends battery replacements at near $100. I got this phone several years after for her at walmart at about $100 or so. No way I am gonna pay another $100 so we will live with it for now. But I am now wondering if apple is really trying to get folks to upgrade hardware that is 4-5 years old? I am using a new 11 Pro Max and getting awesome life but then I am a techie nerd and use my iUP each year.

Going by https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-power the battery replacement should be $49.

 

[rjjacobson]

Going by https://support.apple.com/iphone/repair/service/battery-power the battery replacement should be $49.

Thanks. Ok cheaper but no local apple store/repair. I am reluctant to send her only phone away for half the cost it was to buy for her at Walmart. She would not like to be with out it. And given all was fine under 12.4.1 till the forced update to 13.x just sorta irks me that apple could not leave it well enough alone. Starting to remind me of old Microsoft forced updates in old days at work.

 

[Paddle1]

It sounds like the update got scheduled to install overnight somehow, which is a separate feature from automatic updates.

How long have you had this phone? The battery life can take a hit after first installing an update but should stabilize after a while. Don't know if it will be as good as in the past since it appears the battery may now be degraded.

 

[rjjacobson]

It sounds like the update got scheduled to install overnight somehow, which is a separate feature from automatic updates.

How long have you had this phone? The battery life can take a hit after first installing an update but should stabilize after a while. Don't know if it will be as good as in the past since it appears the battery may now be degraded.

I got it a couple years ago to replace her 16 GB 6 for a cheap price at Walmart. she is not into tech much and getting her into a cell phone let alone iphone was hard. so she is not into spending much for upgrades. funny thing is it was fine and of course did not have this app that grades the condition of battery seems funny it now says it needs service when it was fine.

 

[Mabus51]

If the battery is two+ years old you can pretty much guarantee it’s on its last legs. The software doesn’t matter it was already dying. You’re lucky to get 3 years on a single battery if you’re charging it multiple times a day. If you live in a hot state we’re temps get over 100. You’re lucky to get 2+ years out of a battery.

 

[rjjacobson]

If the battery is two+ years old you can pretty much guarantee it’s on its last legs. The software doesn’t matter it was already dying. You’re lucky to get 3 years on a single battery if you’re charging it multiple times a day. If you live in a hot state we’re temps get over 100. You’re lucky to get 2+ years out of a battery.

Got it two years ago for $100 at walmart. While I upgrade my phones every 1-2 years my wife is not into that and thinks it is a waste to upgrade so much. But its only two years of use it was new but obviously now a 4 year old model

 

[Mabus51]

Got it two years ago for $100 at walmart. While I upgrade my phones every 1-2 years my wife is not into that and thinks it is a waste to upgrade so much. But its only two years of use it was new but obviously now a 4 year old model

It’s not about how old the device is. It’s about the age of a battery. LiPo an LiOn batteries have about 1,000 charge cycles before they turn to trash after that. Once they start degrading it’s a rapid cycle downward. The hardware is fine you just need a new battery.

That’s the big problem with today’s mobile tech. The hardware out lives the battery. The batteries are still using principles of 1800’s science. Sure the methods have changed but the science behind what they are hasn’t and the tech in mobile power source has never caught up with the times. Maybe in another 100 years some new form of mobile power will exist but I wouldn’t expect it in our working years. You may see something new when retired living in a group home.

 

[rjjacobson]

It’s not about how old the device is. It’s about the age of a battery. LiPo an LiOn batteries have about 1,000 charge cycles before they turn to trash after that. Once they start degrading it’s a rapid cycle downward. The hardware is fine you just need a new battery.

That’s the big problem with today’s mobile tech. The hardware out lives the battery. The batteries are still using principles of 1800’s science. Sure the methods have changed but the science behind what they are hasn’t and the tech in mobile power source has never caught up with the times. Maybe in another 100 years some new form of mobile power will exist but I wouldn’t expect it in our working years. You may see something new when retired living in a group home.

So question since it was a "new" phone in Walmart inventory and only purchased and used starting about 2 years ago does that mean the battery ages sitting on the shelf on older phones that are available for purchase several years after they were introduced like this 7 was. I had thought as long as she has charged under the 1000 cycles it should be healthy, but maybe shelf age has contribution? UPDATE: Ok found app to check number of cycles called coconutBattery it says her battery has a cycle count of 421. So well under 1000 number. the app also says the iPhone 7 was manufactured on 8-12-17 and is 851 days old (2.3 years) so it seems premature decline to me given its half the cycles and only 2.3 years from manufacture date.

 

[Mabus51]

Well the battery wasn’t getting newer on the shelf. Either way like you said she has had it for two years plus shelf life that’s 2+ years. You’re reaching the end of that battery’s life. Time to change it or buy a new phone.

 

[rjjacobson]

Well the battery wasn’t getting newer on the shelf. Either way like you said she has had it for two years plus shelf life that’s 2+ years. You’re reaching the end of that battery’s life. Time to change it or buy a new phone.

Well ok since it is only 2 years old and less than half of 1000 cycles that seems terrible for life of iPhone. At most I have had some phones for me no more than 2 years mostly I upgrade I thought one could get 3-4 years out of these if they wanted and did not need the latest and greatest. Kinda disappointed my assumption was apparently wrong. thanks for your information

 

[Mabus51]

You can get the battery replaced which would be cheaper than a new phone.

 

[newellj]

If you have a Mac, get Coconut Battery. It will give you the age and current capacity of the battery. No need to speculate.

 

[rjjacobson]

If you have a Mac, get Coconut Battery. It will give you the age and current capacity of the battery. No need to speculate.

I did back up in last message I found the app (which was one I recalled from years back) and found the info. Here is what I found:

”UPDATE: Ok found app to check number of cycles called coconutBattery it says her battery has a cycle count of 421. So well under 1000 number. the app also says the iPhone 7 was manufactured on 8-12-17 and is 851 days old (2.3 years) so it seems premature decline to me given its half the cycles and only 2.3 years from manufacture date.”

Further note however on the 1000 cycles apparently that number is more applicable for MacBook and IPad batteries being larger. A lot of sites I found said that at 500 it was time to get new battery at least. So its approaching 500, and apples app saying it was at 86 percent of what it was 2 years ago is likely accurate as CoconutBattery showed similar info.
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You can get the battery replaced which would be cheaper than a new phone.

The only problem there is not local official apple repair place. We used to have a reseller that could do apple authorized work but they closed. Nearest apple stores are in Indianapolis 2.5 hours and Chicago to our north at several hours one way. Not practical. And sending in then means my wife has no phone for time to get battery replaced. That simply is not practical. We have no wall phone I convinced her back in day I got her the iPhone 6 to let me cut the cord. She would not like being without a phone for week or more.....

Only choice I see is that I am going to just get by with it for awhile and a bit more down road perhaps look for a dea on a phone like I did when I found the 7 for her. I cannot afford in budget to buy a new phone for her at a few hundred dollars (like a 11 for example at $599). Heck I buy my phones on iUP I cannot afford them up front either. Anyway she is not a Apple tech fan like me so a couple year old iphone model that is new and at bargain price is better for her.

 

[trfc54]

These people saying "replace your battery, replace your phone" etc. have yet to offer an explanation why this would suddenly occur only when you updated to the latest iOS. Blaming everything else but apple's forced obsolescence tactics to get you to spend more $ for new hardware.

 

[rjjacobson]

These people saying "replace your battery, replace your phone" etc. have yet to offer an explanation why this would suddenly occur only when you updated to the latest iOS. Blaming everything else but apple's forced obsolescence tactics to get you to spend more $ for new hardware.

Yes in the back of my mind it does seem suspicious that things were ok on my wife’s 7 until the forced 13.1.2 update from 12.4.1. And given there is no local apple repair all 4 plus hours away round trip, I cannot make her give her phone up to mail in to apple or something so will live with it for another year or two ignoring this appeared forced obsolescence that happened with the forced update

 

[Mlrollin91]

Well ok since it is only 2 years old and less than half of 1000 cycles that seems terrible for life of iPhone. At most I have had some phones for me no more than 2 years mostly I upgrade I thought one could get 3-4 years out of these if they wanted and did not need the latest and greatest. Kinda disappointed my assumption was apparently wrong. thanks for your information

iPhones have a 500 cycle battery. iPads and Macs are 1000 cycles.
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Yes in the back of my mind it does seem suspicious that things were ok on my wife’s 7 until the forced 13.1.2 update from 12.4.1. And given there is no local apple repair all 4 plus hours away round trip, I cannot make her give her phone up to mail in to apple or something so will live with it for another year or two ignoring this appeared forced obsolescence that happened with the forced update

There is no such thing as a forced update. Your wife had to schedule the update by entering her pin on her phone. You must authorize the update.

 

[Diamond Dog]

Your phone will not update without user intervention. Usually, this involves multiple prompts and having to put your passcode in at least once. Apple didn’t force anything.

I advise researching both updates and expected battery lifetimes. All of this information is publicly available on their website.

 

[rjjacobson]

iPhones have a 500 cycle battery. iPads and Macs are 1000 cycles.
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There is no such thing as a forced update. Your wife had to schedule the update by entering her pin on her phone. You must authorize the update.

Wrong. She did no such thing. I have all auto updates turned off on her 7. Her phone was at 12.4.1 and I do her updates. Now she does not have a PIN. She chose not to have one or do finger print. She uses as phone, texting to kids, playing a few games, checking fb. No financial or significant data on phone. So perhaps then because of no PIN the update slipped thru with out any updates turned on?
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Your phone will not update without user intervention. Usually, this involves multiple prompts and having to put your passcode in at least once. Apple didn’t force anything.

I advise researching both updates and expected battery lifetimes. All of this information is publicly available on their website.

Well as I just replied to Mirollin91 she does not use PIN or fingerprint security. She does no online purchases, banking, ect and chose not to implement the PIN and or fingerprint. Yes occasionally there have been prompts in the 12.x.x updates and I take care of the choices, and I installed them as appropriate. But this 13.1.2 jump from 12.4.1 came during night day after release of 13.x without any messages. I am suspecting if one does not need/use PIN and such maybe it does not matter if you have updates turned off it just updates anyway?

And I have researched info, most claim around 4 years for iphone is lifetime. But also most I find do mention the 500 cycle issue on battery. That seems counter to the 4 year life cycle for phone most mention.

Since I am the apple nerd I update every year especially for camer stuff. She has no need, interest and thinks a couple years is a waste of time and money hence I got her 6 first and then 7 just under 2 years ago.

 

[Mlrollin91]

Wrong. She did no such thing. I have all auto updates turned off on her 7. Her phone was at 12.4.1 and I do her updates. Now she does not have a PIN. She chose not to have one or do finger print. She uses as phone, texting to kids, playing a few games, checking fb. No financial or significant data on phone. So perhaps then because of no PIN the update slipped thru with out any updates turned on?
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Well as I just replied to Mirollin91 she does not use PIN or fingerprint security. She does no online purchases, banking, ect and chose not to implement the PIN and or fingerprint. Yes occasionally there have been prompts in the 12.x.x updates and I take care of the choices, and I installed them as appropriate. But this 13.1.2 jump from 12.4.1 came during night day after release of 13.x without any messages. I am suspecting if one does not need/use PIN and such maybe it does not matter if you have updates turned off it just updates anyway?

iOS cannot update without user input. It's a simple as that. You must either schedule the update or manually hit update. Even with Auto-update turned on, you will be warned before the update is actually installed. Even without a PIN, it requires user input. Especially with moving from iOS 12.x.x -> iOS 13.x.x, you have to agree to terms and conditions before the install will go through. Its entirely possible she inadvertently agreed to install the update without realizing it.

 

[EM2013]

Wrong. She did no such thing. I have all auto updates turned off on her 7. Her phone was at 12.4.1 and I do her updates. Now she does not have a PIN. She chose not to have one or do finger print. She uses as phone, texting to kids, playing a few games, checking fb. No financial or significant data on phone. So perhaps then because of no PIN the update slipped thru with out any updates turned on?
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Well as I just replied to Mirollin91 she does not use PIN or fingerprint security. She does no online purchases, banking, ect and chose not to implement the PIN and or fingerprint. Yes occasionally there have been prompts in the 12.x.x updates and I take care of the choices, and I installed them as appropriate. But this 13.1.2 jump from 12.4.1 came during night day after release of 13.x without any messages. I am suspecting if one does not need/use PIN and such maybe it does not matter if you have updates turned off it just updates anyway?

This is the pop up you get when there’s an update. Not what I would consider “forced update.”

My mom barely knows how to use her iPhone 7 yet it’s still on iOS 12.

 

[rjjacobson]

This is the pop up you get when there’s an update. Not what I would consider “forced update.”

My mom barely knows how to use her iPhone 7 yet it’s still on iOS 12.

Well she sees that in updates from 11 through increments of 12.x til 12.4.1 (or whatever last iOS in 12 was). She always brings to me and does not install. She hates the improvements which sometimes mess with thing staying the way she knows how to do them.

In the case of the 13.1.2 update she never saw any such message the night of the install. So both me and her are a bit mistified how it happend. Wonder if the notification just was not seen during the evening and she got on iPad earlier (putting phone on charger).

As I now speculate since her dislike of having to log in her phone every time with PIN and/or finger print we have not used it. I wonder with out that perhaps the install proceeded. Usually with others she ignores the notification until I look at it for her and determine she needs it.

And to respond now, she is on apple family plan and to download new apps she has to use her Apple ID password so there is some security there so my itunes/ID account is where apps that cost get paid from. She does no financial stuff and the like on her phone, she hates doing things online for those things. So I do for her via family account (me I have ID, two factor, face athentication, even two factor for my online banking)

 

[rjjacobson]

iOS cannot update without user input. It's a simple as that. You must either schedule the update or manually hit update. Even with Auto-update turned on, you will be warned before the update is actually installed. Even without a PIN, it requires user input. Especially with moving from iOS 12.x.x -> iOS 13.x.x, you have to agree to terms and conditions before the install will go through. Its entirely possible she inadvertently agreed to install the update without realizing it.

Hm I suppose she could have hit a notification or something without realizing it. She is pretty technically inept other than average iPhone, iPad use. Looking at the 3 choices EM2013 shows (install now, later, details) I am wondering when she “closes” the notification given there is no choice to cancel that she hits later and it installed. She does not remember one that night but could have done it and not remembered I suppose ;-)

What is interesting in past is that some of the incremental 12.x updates would not install later during night but would come back again or say unable to install later and give this choice again. Seems funny 13.x did not do this even if she had inadvertently hit the later button that night?

But the discussion about PIN reminds me on iPhone and iPad I have to enter PIN before a major incremental or new iOS like 13 installs. So it would seem normally that it would not install on own overnight. It might be downloaded of course but until a PIN is entered it will not verify and install. But since she has no PIN could it then install since that step is not needed on her phone?

 

[Mlrollin91]

Hm I suppose she could have hit a notification or something without realizing it. She is pretty technically inept other than average iPhone, iPad use. Looking at the 3 choices EM2013 shows (install now, later, details) I am wondering when she “closes” the notification given there is no choice to cancel that she hits later and it installed. She does not remember one that night but could have done it and not remembered I suppose ;-)

What is interesting in past is that some of the incremental 12.x updates would not install later during night but would come back again or say unable to install later and give this choice again. Seems funny 13.x did not do this even if she had inadvertently hit the later button that night?

But the discussion about PIN reminds me on iPhone and iPad I have to enter PIN before a major incremental or new iOS like 13 installs. So it would seem normally that it would not install on own overnight. It might be downloaded of course but until a PIN is entered it will not verify and install. But since she has no PIN could it then install since that step is not needed on her phone?

No, even without a pin it would require manual authorization of hitting install, or agreeing to terms and conditions.

 

[rjjacobson]

No, even without a pin it would require manual authorization of hitting install, or agreeing to terms and conditions.

Ok I really do not know since I have always have a PIN, and hitting install/agreeing to terms. I could see given she “closes” those notifications of install (install, later, more info) sometimes “ignoring“ she thinks she is doing she must be hitting later thinking it is same as no. But never had a 11.x or 12.x install happen with out the manual intervention to complete. Usually it probably downloaded and could not install (error messages to same happen) and then I would decide if she needed it ;-). But the install (download already there or done during night ) happened during middle of night with out anyone there. She picked her phone up and it was at the welcome screen requiring the new setup things from language to security and such which I usually handle so the update had occurred.