Prop. 8 Ruled unconstitutional! :) :)

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by leekohler, Aug 3, 2010.

  1. leekohler macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #1
    This is bound to be interesting. It will definitely be a test of whether or not the system works. I predict trouble no matter what the decision.

    http://www.advocate.com/News/Daily_News/2010/08/03/Prop_8_Ruling_Coming_Wednesday/
     
  2. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #2
  3. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #3
    It doesn't work if it doesn;t protect the rights of all.
     
  4. Rodimus Prime macrumors G4

    Rodimus Prime

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    #4
    does not change what I said.

    Also this ruling at the end of the day is worthless because no matter what the ruling is it will be appealed to a higher court. All these rulings are worthless until it gets to supreme court.
     
  5. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #5
    No ruling is worthless.
     
  6. AceWilfong macrumors regular

    AceWilfong

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    #6
    On THIS Supreme Court?
     
  7. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #7
    Who knows? They have pleasantly surprised me before.
     
  8. FreeState macrumors 68000

    FreeState

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    #8
    Actually its this ruling that any appeal will be based on. No matter how the Judge rules everything from this point on is directly related to his ruling (even at the Supreme Court). So yes his ruling matters, and a great deal at that.
     
  9. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #9
    Um not necessarily. Just because it didn't cater to your needs, doesn't mean it's broken.

    However, there are some things that are wrong becuase of close-mindness. That you can change with your vote.
     
  10. AP_piano295 macrumors 65816

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    #10
    The system does not work if it fails to grant people the basic rights which they are guaranteed in the Constitution and our Deceleration of Independence.
     
  11. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #11
    No, that's the people that run the system who are broken. System is fine. Want to make it better, get rid of the idiots running it.
     
  12. GfPQqmcRKUvP macrumors 68040

    GfPQqmcRKUvP

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    #12
    Not necessarily. A vote passed Prop 8, which should be unconstitutional. Similarly, in small, ultra-religious towns in the south, voters could overwhelmingly vote for something that is strictly against the constitution in terms of establishment of religion. Voting is a good system until the popular vote infringes upon the constitutional rights of others. When it does so, the vote needs to be disregarded.
     
  13. bobber205 macrumors 68020

    bobber205

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  14. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #14
    Wrong. If the system fails to protect it's citizens according to the Constitution, it is indeed broken. Badandy said it best.
     
  15. eawmp1 macrumors 601

    eawmp1

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    #15
    The needs of the majority, or the needs of the excluded?

    Interfaith marriages, interrace marriages, marriages between a man and woman where one is "fronting" to deny his/her homosexuality, marriages of convenience, marriage between those of markedly different ages...where does one draw the line? If two people wish to form a civil union (e.g. incorporating), what is the criteria by which YOU would exclude them?
     
  16. yg17 macrumors G5

    yg17

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    #16
    I'm optimistic, because the defense's argument basically amounted to "Gays are bad, mmmmkay?" while the plantiffs had a strong argument for it. But I'm not getting my hopes up just yet.
     
  17. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #17
    I'll just respond with this:

     
  18. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #18
    If the system can be subverted this easily by the people in it, it does not work. The proper safeguards are obviously not in place.

    We have three branches of government in place to insure that the system works properly. If they all fail, the system is does not work.
     
  19. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #19
    Well the safe guards are there. The problem is that they aren't being enforced because we have idiots in power.

    This will always hold truth for eternity. As long as the same homophobic idiots run the system, it doesn't matter how many safeguards you put in, they will always find a way around it or some BS.
     
  20. justaregularjoe macrumors 6502

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    #20
    Sorry to rub your noses in it, but this is one of the reasons why I doubt I will ever leave Canada. Gay marriage has been a non-issue since 2004. Done and done.

    But know that I am rooting for equal rights in America, my true home!
     
  21. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #21
    Again- if the system can be this easily subverted by those people, it does not work.
     
  22. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #22
    Clearly we know something is wrong and it has to be fixed. However, isn't the best fix always the voting for the right guy?

    So, they can say no to people, but midterms are up and voters don't take kind saying no to;)
     
  23. leekohler thread starter macrumors G5

    leekohler

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    #23
    The system has been designed to withstand subversion of the Constitution. If that system can't prevent that subversion, it clearly needs to be modified. We cannot vote for judges, nor do I think we should. That would be extremely dangerous, because then the laws and rights would merely be a popularity contest, which is why Proposition 8 is so dangerous. Proposition 8 is clearly something that the Constitution was meant to prevent.

    We can vote for who we think is "the right guy", but we never know if that is the case until he or she takes office.
     
  24. justaregularjoe macrumors 6502

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    #24
    Yes, this is the obvious and easy fix. However, the problem presents itself when the group that is being discriminated against is a minority. And I find that people will more often vote for the option that benefits them immediately, not to one that benefits all or benefits people over time.

    So sure, us gays can vote for the most liberal and progressive people who promise gay rights all we want, but it really does not mean anything when the other guy is a bible thumping (shrimp eating) ******* who promises to lower taxes!

    Therefore, the system is broken.


    EDIT: Lee and I overlap a bit; he beat me to the punch as usual :D.
     
  25. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #25
    Alas we come to a sad realization, there is no perfect system and even if we try we still find faults in it.
     

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