Proposal would allow state religion in North Carolina

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by steve knight, Apr 2, 2013.

  1. steve knight Suspended

    steve knight

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    #1
    well 5 guesses on what religion it would be. And guess is it republicans or democrats doing this???
    http://www.wral.com/proposal-would-allow-state-religion-in-north-carolina/12296876/
    A bill filed by Republican lawmakers would allow the state to declare an official religion, in violation of the Establishment Clause of the US Bill of Rights, and seeks to nullify any federal ruling against Christian prayer by public bodies in North Carolina.

    The bill grew out of a federal lawsuit filed last month by the ACLU against the Rowan County Board of Commissioners. In the lawsuit, the ACLU says the board has opened 97% of its meetings since 2007 with explicitly Christian prayers.

    Overtly Christian prayers at government meetings are not rare in North Carolina. Since the Republican takeover in 2011, the state Senate chaplain has offered a explicitly Christian invocation virtually every day of session, despite the fact that some senators are not Christian.

    In a 2011 ruling on a similar lawsuit against the Forsyth County Board of Commissioners, the Fourth Circuit Court of Appeals did not ban prayer at government meetings outright, but said prayers favoring one religion over another are unconstitutional.

    "To plant sectarian prayers at the heart of local government is a prescription for religious discord. ...where prayer in public fora is concerned, the deep beliefs of the speaker afford only more reason to respect the profound convictions of the listener. Free religious exercise posits broad religious tolerance."

    House Bill 494, filed by Republican Rowan County Reps. Harry Warren and Carl Ford, would refuse to acknowledge the force of any judicial ruling on prayer in North Carolina, or indeed on any Constitutional topic:

    "Whereas, the Constitution of the United States does not grant the federal government and does not grant the federal courts the power to determine what is or is not constitutional; therefore, by virtue of the Tenth Amendment to the Constitution of the United States, the power to determine constitutionality and the proper interpretation and proper application of the Constitution is reserved to the states and to the people; and

    "Whereas, each state in the union is sovereign and may independently determine how that state may make laws respecting an establishment of religion;"

    The Tenth Amendment argument, also known as "nullification," has been tried unsuccessfully by states for more than a century to defy everything from the Emancipation Proclamation of the Civil War to President Obama's health care reforms to gun control.

    The bill goes on to say:

    SECTION 1. The North Carolina General Assembly asserts that the Constitution of the United States of America does not prohibit states or their subsidiaries from making laws respecting an establishment of religion.

    SECTION 2. The North Carolina General Assembly does not recognize federal court rulings which prohibit and otherwise regulate the State of North Carolina, its public schools, or any political subdivisions of the State from making laws respecting an establishment of religion.

    Eleven House Republicans have signed on to sponsor the resolution, including Majority Leader Edgar Starnes, R-Caldwell, and Budget Chair Justin Burr, R-Stanly.
     
  2. Huntn, Apr 2, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 2, 2013

    Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #2
    Sorry for the language but BS! Each State decides on Constitutionality for themselves? What nerve. Now I've heard it all. So paying taxes is probably unconstitutional too. Might as well break apart the union if that passes or send in troops...
     
  3. steve knight thread starter Suspended

    steve knight

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    #3
    But but this is a christian nation founded on biblical principles right right?????
     
  4. Huntn macrumors G5

    Huntn

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    #4
    To some degree except for separation oh church and state. Our founders knew what they left in Europe. For government, secular is the way to go.
     
  5. mrkramer macrumors 603

    mrkramer

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    #5
    Did somebody get the date wrong and plan to post this yesterday? Because I really hope this isn't real...
     
  6. xShane macrumors 6502a

    xShane

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    #6
    — Edward Gibbon
     
  7. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #7
    What the hell does that have to do with the United States Constitution ?

    Please point it out to me in the United States Constitution.
     
  8. steve knight thread starter Suspended

    steve knight

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    #8
    `it is right under in god we trust. that was said by the founding fathers right right?
     
  9. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #9
    Right.

    That's some serious stuff those people are getting into. I hope they realize it.
     
  10. steve knight thread starter Suspended

    steve knight

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    #10
    god is behind them of course. or maybe it is the devil sometimes they are the same.
     
  11. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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  12. Grey Beard macrumors 65816

    Grey Beard

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    #12
    Only in America! While I do not understand the machinations of the US political system(s) this has to be totally bloody stupid.

    KGB:cool:
     
  13. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #13
    When ever I hear about this type of behaviour I'm always reminded that the German Army had "Gott mit uns" on their belt buckles.
    http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gott_mit_uns
    Nations and Governments will use what ever tricks they can to stay in power.:mad:

    And yes I do know that "in God we trust" was added much later, and that the US was founded on freedom of religion.:p
     
  14. eric/ Guest

    eric/

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    #14
    Well no, not only I'm America, throughout the world. In fact.
     
  15. Tomorrow macrumors 604

    Tomorrow

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    #15
    A prayer at a government meeting shouldn't be a problem, unless there was a law requiring participation. But a state-mandated religion? The constitution prohibits that.
     
  16. APlotdevice, Apr 3, 2013
    Last edited: Apr 3, 2013

    APlotdevice macrumors 68040

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    #16
    Definately unconstitutional. Even if the establishment clause specifically did only apply to the Federal Government, they're still stomping on other people's beliefs. Especially by pushing it into schools. The Constitution gives you the right to practice any religion, not just Christianity.
     
  17. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #17
    While I vehemently disagree with what's been proposed in the OP's link, I'm interested in knowing what you mean by this statement. Especially the send in troops part.

    Would you advocate a military attack on our own citizens over something such as this?
     
  18. NT1440 macrumors G4

    NT1440

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    #18
    No...That was added to our currency much later on (in response the godless commies :rolleyes: (pathetic what humanity has been through)).

    The motto itself appears to have originated sometime in the 1800's as it relates to 'murika.

    ----------

    If a state knowingly enacts laws that exempt themselves from the constitution, is that institutional treason?

    I don't like physical force for anything, but technically wouldn't rejecting the US constitution make it land that is trying to succeed? How do you prevent that land from doing so?
     
  19. zioxide macrumors 603

    zioxide

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    #19
    This is going nowhere.

    Any crap like this that was actually passed in to law would be struck down quite quickly by the courts as unconstitutional.

    No.

    "As the Government of the United States of America is not, in any sense, founded on the Christian religion"
    -John Adams in the Treaty of Tripoli

    "That our civil rights have no dependence on our religious opinions any more than our opinions in physics or geometry..."
    -Thomas Jefferson in the Virginia Statute for Religious Freedom

    There's two of your founding fathers.

    And most importantly..
    "Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion"
    The first amendment to the US Constitution.


    This "proposal" is going NOWHERE.
     
  20. SLC Flyfishing Suspended

    SLC Flyfishing

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    #20
    I think first you have to be sure that said land is actually trying to secede, do they actually want to leave the union?
     
  21. Shrink macrumors G3

    Shrink

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    #21
    Not to be cynical or anything, but most Americans don't understand the machinations of the US political system.

    :rolleyes:
     
  22. Peace macrumors Core

    Peace

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    #22
    Unfortunately you are correct. Nor do they care.
     
  23. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    #23
    It prohibits Congress to be exact. Says nothing about state legislatures. Odd indeed.
     
  24. APlotdevice macrumors 68040

    APlotdevice

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    #24
    That's what they're literally trying to get around with this proposal. Arguing that it only applies to the federal government ("Congress"). Though as I pointed out, even if that was true, it still creates a potential conflict with another clause in the 1st ammendment.... "or prohibiting the free exercise thereof"... by pushing specifically Christian dogma into public institutions like schools.
     
  25. jav6454 macrumors P6

    jav6454

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    Double edge sword.
     

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