Provable Conspiracy or Theory? What do YOU think?

How would you categorize the information and proofs in this audio?

  • Mostly theoretical and the conclusions drawn from the proofs are wrong.

    Votes: 3 30.0%
  • Mostly factual but the conclusions being drawn are wrong.

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • Mostly theoretical but I agree with most of what's being said.

    Votes: 0 0.0%
  • Mostly factual and I agree with the conclusions.

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • I haven't listened to the audio but I'm going to comment anyway cuz I love to opinionate.

    Votes: 1 10.0%
  • I'm not going to listen to the audio at all for whatever reasons.

    Votes: 4 40.0%

  • Total voters
    10

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
4
Japan
http://www.archive.org/download/AlexJonesRadioShow-September222009/Alex_Jones_Show_-_09-22-09_-_64K_-_CF.mp3 64K MP3
http://www.archive.org/download/AlexJonesRadioShow-September222009/Alex_Jones_Show_-_09-22-09_-_32K_-_CF.mp3 32K MP3
http://www.archive.org/download/AlexJonesRadioShow-September222009/Alex_Jones_Show_-_09-22-09_-_64K_-_CF.ogg 64K OGG

(Download and skip to hour two or so to skip the monologue intro.)



Leonard Horowitz,
a former dentist, a health industry entrepreneur, and the author of a number of books, pamphlets, DVDs, CDs and articles on public health issues. Horowitz recently filed a lawsuit in California and has released evidence in legal affidavits that leaders of a private global biotechnology âtrustâ are behind the pandemic flu, including its origin and alleged prevention via vaccinations.

Jerome Corsi,
best selling author (The Obama Nation: Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality) and critic of the North American Union, continues to break down the phony flu pandemic. Jerome Corsi is a Staff Reporter for The World Net Daily and author of many books, including 'Unfit For Duty', Minutemen', and 'The Late Great USA' and his newest book 'The Obama Nation: Leftist Politics and the Cult of Personality', and etc.


Here's an interview with Corsi as conducted by Paul Ibbetson on The Wildcat 91.9 FM Kansas:
http://www.archive.org/details/PaulA.IbbetsonInterviewsJeromeCorsi070808
 

iShater

macrumors 604
Aug 13, 2002
6,967
370
Chicagoland
Been reading Rainbow Six have we? :rolleyes:

What I see is that the "media" and our natural human paranoia has made a strain of the flue (which is less deadly than "regular" flu) such a big deal that someone:

1) Had to create the vaccine to make $$ of it.
2) Had to recommend/request the vaccine to avoid public panic.

While both are overblown IMHO, I don't see a major conspiracy.

That being said, I am planning to get the vaccine. :p
 

geese

macrumors 6502a
Oct 23, 2003
525
0
London, UK
Sounds like nonsense. Everything is a conspiracy if you're that way inclined. Flu pandemics are hardly a modern phenomena.

If you were a really evil drug company boss, then there are surely more profitable diseases to propagate then the flu.
 

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
4
Japan
Been reading Rainbow Six have we? :rolleyes:
What is Rainbow Six?


Anyway the flu stuff here is only about 4 or 5 percent of the issue being discussed. It just happens to be in the bio's is all. If you wanna comment on topic in this thread you'll have to at least skim the audio files linked here.

Guessing the topic doesn't really work. :rolleyes:

If anything this is mainly about eugenics, the power structure which wants to commit global genocide, and it's relationship to humanitarian and constitutional morality. It does include some stuff about flu tho.
 

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,888
2,480
St. Louis, MO
Your sources are Alex Jones and Jerome Corsi? I don't even need to read further. It's a whackjob theory with no evidence behind it and I can tell that based off those two names. They are the nuttiest of nutjobs. They put Mr. Peanut to shame in terms of nuttiness.
 

eawmp1

macrumors 601
Feb 19, 2008
4,130
5
FL
A theory - but in the same vein as there is a face on Mars, we didn't land on the moon, and that vaccines cause autism.

Humans have been afflected by plagues since before recorded time. Influenza is genetically robust virus they is subject to genetic drift and shift. This is why the virus strains represented in the seasonal influenza vaccine change yearly. H1N1 is not a truly novel virus, similar strains were seen in the 20th century.

The technology used to develop the H1N1 vaccine is the same ysed in the yearly vaccine. We identify candidate flu strains, grow them up, isolate a protein called hemagglutinin that is necessary for virus attachment to cells, and inject that protein with a carrier into the patient, stimulating an immune response that hopefully will be recalled if exposed to the actual flu.

Had H1N1 reared its head prior to the selection of the 2009-2010 influenza strains, it would have been included in this year's vaccine. As soon as H1N1was identified, concurrent production and study of the H1N1 vaccine was undertaken, with FDA approval of the vaccine in the past few weeks.

I feel lucky to live in a era that such a brisk response to a potentially serious infectious agent can be mounted. H1N1 is, in my experience, a pussycat. However, this may serve as a good dress rehearsal for the "big one."
 

MacNut

macrumors Core
Jan 4, 2002
21,550
7,802
CT
If you were a really evil drug company boss, then there are surely more profitable diseases to propagate then the flu.
They want everyone to get a flu shot so in reality the drug companies can make a lot of money off of the vaccines.
 

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
4
Japan
Your sources are Alex Jones and Jerome Corsi? I don't even need to read further. It's a whackjob theory with no evidence behind it and I can tell that based off those two names. They are the nuttiest of nutjobs. They put Mr. Peanut to shame in terms of nuttiness.
They're both providing research and documentation form a multitude of sources. All the sources are BS too?

They want everyone to get a flu shot so in reality the drug companies can make a lot of money off of the vaccines.
Yeah, according to the parts of this audio that ARE about the flu, they're saying this (what you said). And they are also saying that the probability of the vaccines being a bio-weapon is fairly high.

A theory - but in the same vein as there is a face on Mars, we didn't land on the moon, and that vaccines cause autism.

So you think there is evidence but that the conclusions are wrong... ... ...and you don't even know the topic/evidence because you haven't listened to the audio? Or you already listened to the broadcast earlier today when it was live or something?
 

yg17

macrumors G5
Aug 1, 2004
14,888
2,480
St. Louis, MO
They're both providing research and documentation form a multitude of sources. All the sources are BS too?
I can't listen to the audio at work, but what are their sources?

Keep in mind they're both 9/11 truthers. For that reason alone they have no credibility whatsoever and I don't trust a word out of their mouth. IMO, there is no quicker way to lose any credibility you had by spouting off the truther BS. Those two alone use enough tinfoil to keep Reynolds in business.
 

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
4
Japan
I can't listen to the audio at work, but what are their sources?
Baxter, CSL Australia, NIAID, Murdock Children's Institute, WTO, The French Government, French Court Rulings, The Mexican Government, CDC, Rockerfeller center, Arkansas state government, The Red Cross, BBC, Reuters, various independent research organizations, etc.. There are hundreds that they give during the entire 4-hour show. I can't name them all; there's way too many.

...there is no quicker way to lose any credibility you had by spouting off the truther BS.
Why? 99% of the "truthers" I read say only: "I don't believe the official story - something is fishy, I want a new investigation". I think so too. By that definition 6 of the 11 investigators on the 9-11 commission are "Truthers". 6 of the 11 say that the investigation was rigged and dishonest. That sounds like a pretty good indication to me! I mean when the majority of the actual appointed commissioners say the investigation was fraudulent and/or based on fraudulent evidence? WOW! You are saying that you know better than them? Hmmm, OK.




.
 

abijnk

macrumors 68040
Oct 15, 2007
3,286
4
Los Angeles, CA
I should qualify that I meant in terms of numbers, way more people die of it.
Oh, ok, I thought maybe I had bad information.

Hey Tess (I hope you don't mind me calling you that...), how's it goin'? I think this is a conspiracy theory for a couple reasons:

1) The health care industry doesn't exactly need help making people sick, they are pretty good about getting sick all on their own.

2) Well, to be frank, every other post of yours that I have seen in PRSI (yes, every single one) has had a reference to a conspiracy theory. Whether it be FEMA coffins, "truthers," etc. There seems to be no reason this would be any different.

Although I admit I didn't listen to the audio (I'm at work, so I can't), I'm fairly confident in my assessment.
 

eawmp1

macrumors 601
Feb 19, 2008
4,130
5
FL
So you think there is evidence but that the conclusions are wrong... ... ...and you don't even know the topic/evidence because you haven't listened to the audio? Or you already listened to the broadcast earlier today when it was live or something?
THIS broadcast no, but this is not the first media outlet for these guys or this information.

As for the miltiple species sources of the virus parts not being able to come together outside the lab and form H1N1, THAT is the premise of many of the conspiracy theorists. However, that basic premise is wrong. Genetic rearrangement is the rule of influenza, not the exception. Avian, porcine (swine), and human strains can share/interchange information freely. 48 months ago we were watching Avian bird flu and wondering is if could acquire the genetic material that allowed it to have greater human-to-human contagiousness. Most novel flu strains develop in underdevloped areas of the world where human, fowl, and swine live in close contact and freely exchage illness.

The problem is that absence of proof isn't proof of absence. You will never be able to convince these people, even in the face of logic.
 

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
4
Japan
You will never be able to convince these people, even in the face of logic.
What? I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. It's a poll and I wanna know how this topic polls out. That's it. I'm questioning a few opinions but there's no agenda on my part to convince anyone of anything.
 

abijnk

macrumors 68040
Oct 15, 2007
3,286
4
Los Angeles, CA
What? I'm not trying to convince anyone of anything. It's a poll and I wanna know how this topic polls out. That's it. I'm questioning a few opinions but there's no agenda on my part to convince anyone of anything.
I may be wrong, but I think the "you" was a generic "you" and the "these people" were the conspiracy theorists.
 

Tesselator

macrumors 601
Original poster
Jan 9, 2008
4,601
4
Japan
Hey Tess (I hope you don't mind me calling you that...), how's it goin'?
Sure, I think most people call me Tess. That's way cool bro. :) And I'm doing OK. Thanks for asking.


I think this is a conspiracy theory for a couple reasons:

1) The health care industry doesn't exactly need help making people sick, they are pretty good about getting sick all on their own.
Yeah, but sicknesses are statistically on the increase. And by quite a steep curve! I mean considering all illnesses... I've heard that this is due to population numbers but that doesn't shake out when you look at location, historical figures, and consider the current actual numbers. So, I dunno. I hear what you're saying tho. Anyway are the numbers of actual flu cases this year even higher than normal yet? I've heard both that they are and that they are not. <shrug>


2) Well, to be frank, every other post of yours that I have seen in PRSI (yes, every single one) has had a reference to a conspiracy theory. Whether it be FEMA coffins, "truthers," etc. There seems to be no reason this would be any different.
Not every other post. Indeed almost every post. But I wanna clarify these are not my opinions. I just wanna know what other people think about these issues. So I bring them up a lot and ask. ;)

When I comment in other people's threads (fairly rare in the political forum) then that's usually my own opinion. My opinions are usually fueled by the fact that the federal gov. is composed of 98% crooks. I am also convinced that much of the proposed bills and policies stem from the efforts and institutions of a few sociopathic and/or satanic "elites" or elite organizations. There's a lot of evidence that shows this to be true - even if you just think it's silly and meaningless. But my opinions are not the topic here. The information presented in that audio is the topic - that and what you good folks here think of it.
 

abijnk

macrumors 68040
Oct 15, 2007
3,286
4
Los Angeles, CA
Yeah, but sicknesses are statistically on the increase. And by quite a steep curve!
As eawmp1 says, provide the numbers...

Not every other post. Indeed almost every post.
I meant every post of your I have ever seen other than this one. ;)

When I comment in other people's threads (fairly rare in the political forum) then that's usually my own opinion. My opinions are usually fueled by the fact that the federal gov. is composed of 98% crooks. I am also convinced that much of the proposed bills and policies stem from the efforts and institutions of a few sociopathic and/or satanic "elites" or elite organizations. There's a lot of evidence that shows this to be true - even if you just think it's silly and meaningless. But my opinions are not the topic here. The information presented in that audio is the topic - that and what you good folks here think of it.
I have a saying that I try to live by: "Assume ignorance before malintent." (and yes, I know that's not a word)

I don't find the evidence here at all convincing, and thus I revert back to my saying...
 

.Andy

macrumors 68030
Jul 18, 2004
2,946
583
The Mergui Archipelago
âtrustâ were also behind the 1918 spanish influenza outbreak.




It's an insane conspiracy theory. I'll be lining up for my vaccination early next week.