Putin Expels 755 US Diplomats

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by vrDrew, Jul 30, 2017.

  1. vrDrew macrumors 65816

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    #1
    In response to US sanctions that are (apparently) putting a lot of pressure on the Russian Govt. and its supporters, Vladimir Putin announced that as many as 755 US diplomats would have to leave Russia by September 1.

    It's pretty hard not to hear a tad of buyer's remorse in Putin's comments. He'll join a long list of people who've gotten burned putting their money in a Donald Trump project.

    That aside, it's never a good thing when countries diplomatic relations go south. I'm also a little shocked that the US had so many diplomats in Russia to begin with. How many does that leave? A hundred? Five hundred? Will the Ambassador be making his own coffee?

    But let's not lose sight of the reasons why the US put sanctions on Russia to begin with: It's illegal annexation of Crimea. It's undeclared war in Ukraine. And it's blatant meddling in US elections, and ongoing campaign of cybercrime.
     
  2. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #2
    he should expel ALL of them if there are any left........
     
  3. Gutwrench macrumors 68000

    Gutwrench

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    #3
    Real or imagined?

     
  4. Populism macrumors regular

    Populism

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    #4
    When Putin meets with Trump, it's proof of collusion.

    When Putin expels 700 US diplomats, its proof of collusion.
     
  5. vrDrew thread starter macrumors 65816

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    #5
    Uh, you are going to have to explain to me how that is going to make anything better?
     
  6. skunk macrumors G4

    skunk

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    #6
    Let's also not lose sight of the reasons why Russia annexed the Crimea, which was the US staging a coup in Ukraine which threatened Russia's access to the Mediterrranean.
     
  7. LizKat macrumors 68040

    LizKat

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    #7
    ... and it's about oil....


    Excerpt:

    At Exxon’s annual meeting in May 2014, after the U.S. imposed sanctions on Sechin but before imposing them on Rosneft, Tillerson told reporters, “There has been no impact on any of our business activities in Russia to this point, nor has there been any discernible impact on the relationship” with Rosneft. “The organizations continue to work business as usual.” He added, according to the Associated Press, that “he generally opposes sanctions as imprecise and ineffective. He said he has discussed his view with U.S. officials. He declined to identify them but said, ‘Our views are being heard at the highest levels.’”

    Tillerson did not know Trump prior to election day. He was, reportedly, recommended to Trump by former Secretary of State Condoleeza Rice and former Secretary of Defense Robert Gates. But those two were not merely national security heavyweights from prior administrations; they now work in the same consulting firm, whose clients include ExxonMobil. So the push to make Tillerson Secretary of State could be seen, in part, as consistent with Exxon’s own efforts to influence the Trump administration, including on the issue of the sanctions blocking the Exxon-Russia deal.

    Although Tillerson has been notably missing from key Trump meetings and his views often overruled, he was the only other U.S. official in the room when Trump met with Putin at the G20 meeting in Hamburg earlier this month.​
     
  8. Eraserhead, Jul 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017

    Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #8
    I don't think Putin actually wanted Trump to win. I think he just wanted Hilary to be weaker. Hilary won the popular vote by 2%. If you subtract Comeys letter which cost Clinton say 2.5% (https://fivethirtyeight.com/features/the-comey-letter-probably-cost-clinton-the-election/) and then assume Russian meddling cost her a similar percentage you have Clinton winning by a margin of 7% - or 9% if the polls had been correct.

    That sort of margin would make it easy for Clinton to have enacted her pro business progressive line on climate change. And that would have harmed Russia hugely.

    That sort of margin also brings Texas into play as a true swing state with a 1-3% margin for the Republicans - making life super hard for Republicans going forward and therefore making them far more likely to be bipartisan. The Democratic Party would still have to work with the republicans as the senate would still be split 53-47 or something like that. Basically something like scenario 2 on https://fivethirtyeight.com/feature...-these-5-articles-the-day-after-the-election/
     
  9. zin Suspended

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    #9
    Well done to the dopes in the United States Congress for trashing an already dire situation with a pointless endeavour.
     
  10. steve knight, Jul 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017

    steve knight macrumors 68020

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    #10
    Can you collude when meeting with your banker?
     
  11. Thomas Veil macrumors 68020

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    #11
    I wonder what the CIA thinks about this. Hopefully, none of the dismissed diplomats were its "assets". (It's probably naive to think so, however.)

    This piece, published yesterday, does suggest that Rootin'-Tootin' Putin has buyer's remorse.

    Putin seems to have been banking on Trump being a useful tool -- which he has been -- but it looks like he forgot that presidents here are not omnipotent (Donald's personal belief notwithstanding)...and that people not named Trump have long memories with regards to Russia.

    Interesting. Sometimes I think that Putin is playing three-dimensional chess while Trump is playing checkers, but this is something to think about. Maybe I'm over-estimating him. Putin may indeed be out-maneuvering Trump (and even Obama) in some ways, but what's it getting him? If Putin thought having a Trump hand puppet was going to help him, he may have to think again. At best what will come of his investment is the dubious satisfaction of having thrown a huge monkey wrench in the works of American government.

    (Hmm. Isn't that what Trump's fans wanted too? Well. Be that as it may.)

    Russian diplomats are dreaming if they think they're going to get classified US intelligence evidence, and fools if they think their own side did not meddle with our election. Putin's "Who, me?? I'm innocent" act isn't fooling anybody but his own people and those weak-minded Americans who really do believe that the election hacker was some 400 lb. guy sitting in bed.
     
  12. jpietrzak8 macrumors 65816

    jpietrzak8

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    #12
    That leaves precisely 455 American staff in the country, the same number of Russian staff that Obama allowed to remain in the US. Russia is also shuttering two real estate properties used by US staff, in response to the two shuttered in this country.

    In short, this is simply tit-for-tat sanctioning. Nothing surprising.
     
  13. Scepticalscribe Contributor

    Scepticalscribe

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    #13
    Have you ever been in any of the US embassies abroad? Even the embassies they have in "small" countries? I have.

    They resemble nothing so much as those mad cities you used to see on Star Trek; I can well imagine hundreds of "diplomats", real, imagined and double and triple-hatted. Some very strange creatures lurk within some of those walls.

    True.

    And also true.
     
  14. VulchR, Jul 30, 2017
    Last edited: Jul 30, 2017

    VulchR macrumors 68020

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    #14
    When Putin expels 700 US diplomats, its proof of failed collusion (by the team of Mr. Art-of-the-Deal).
     
  15. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #15
    If Putin was really clever he wouldn't have tied his country to hydrocarbons. The Chinese way is vastly superior and will be much stronger in the long run.

    My next heating system in my flat will likely be electric. And if not the system after my next boiler breaks will be.
     
  16. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #16
    Russia annexed Crimea to shore up Putin's popularity at home and to avoid paying Ukraine more rent for the bases there. The Ukraine gave up its nuclear arsenal on the basis that Russia and the US would respect its territorial integrity, and Putin reneged. It's silly to blame the US - even Putin hated the government of the Ukraine that was deposed because they were criminals. No doubt the current government officials are criminals as well, but at least they don't engage in land grabs of territories from neighbouring countries. Putin's annexation of the Crimea was straight out of Hitler's handbook (and once again the West let a populist dictator get away with it).

    If war ever started with Russia in the Baltics, then the bases in Crimea should be destroyed. After all, they're not on Russian soil so it would not be an escalation.

    Oh, and that access to the Med is apparently so that Russia can support regime's like Assad's - not exactly a good thing.
     
  17. LizKat macrumors 68040

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    #17
    They also probably nudged Tillerson --who whatever you think of him as a diplomat is at least an adult in the sane service of the USA as SoS-- a little closer to the door.

    Tillerson had doubtless hoped the sanctions would be gone for the sake of his alma mater Exxon, even though he personally had divested himself of related holdings for the sake of taking this job. He wants out, you can almost see him mouthing the words... and Trump has not made life easy for him by flipping policy and undercutting him on Middle Eastern issues. I hope he stays because I don't even want to see Trump's next pick for the post.
     
  18. DearthnVader macrumors 6502

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    #18
    If Russia wanted to hurt the US, they would stop pricing their Oil and Natural Gas in $USD$.
     
  19. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #19
    Both can be true. One doesn't negate the other. Nor does one prove the other.
     
  20. BarracksSi Suspended

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    #20
    Quoted for posterity. I didn't know how many would be remaining (hell, I thought 755 was everyone).
     
  21. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #21
    but but but it's ok when the U.S meddles in other countries...........
     
  22. stylinexpat macrumors 6502a

    stylinexpat

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    #22
    I agree, let's see if China follows Putin's footsteps and deports 750 Americans as well if Trump decides to sanction China for North Korea.
     
  23. samcraig macrumors P6

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    #23
    It is. It really is. Because every nation is fundamentally egocentric. Or don't you think that a country should prioritize taking care of their own first?
     
  24. stylinexpat macrumors 6502a

    stylinexpat

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    #24
    America's reputation for its meddles in other countries is very well known throughout the world today.
     
  25. jkcerda macrumors 6502

    jkcerda

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    #25
    [​IMG]

    got a feeling that is how Russia felt when they meddled in ours according to the CIA................ reap what we sow.
    --- Post Merged, Jul 31, 2017 ---
    yeah, but we are the "good" guys and we know better than they do.................... but if they ever meddle in our affairs then it's time for war :mad:
     

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