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Discussion in 'Community' started by indifference, Jan 22, 2005.
Is it possible to change a culture that does not want to change?
I would say, no, at least not in a peaceful manner.
I agree, I think that a society we may never change, I woner how we can change the society we live in if it doesn't want to?
Think small. Act local.
Your ideas, words and actions have more effect on those around you.
If they have value, then they will ripple outwards and resonate with others.
when I came back to school I told fin aid that if bush got re-elected that they would take something out of education, they said it may not have been in the next year. It happenes that they are taking something out in the year. The Pel. We also went to war with Iraq again, and so fourth.
You are the society you live in.
A very good friend I had said to me, people have tallents that are sometimes better than others. Is life what you make of it, not what you are?
Well, to let you know I work in an intelligence group making a forecats of the social and political situation of my country (Venezuela) and the region. This envolved a incredible deep knowledge of our culture as well the relationship with the rest of the countries and the interaction between them just to have an idea in advance of where in the hell the world is going.
But regarding your question...
A culture is nothing more than teh personality of a group of people, I would ask you then: would you change your personality if you do not want to?
If you do not want to change you just wont, in that case IF the other party want to change you it will have to infiltrate you and manipulate you, it will take time and a lot of brain but it is possible to find a weak point in your behaviour that will make you change eventually.
Now, to go deeper in to the subject. You have two elements to work on. One is the "way of thinking" and the otherone is the "behaviour".
For example I can make you change your mind about eating at Macdonalds and you can understand that but what if you have a girlfriend who loved to go to Macdonalds? you see? there is a behaviour, the environment that you had created based on that way of thinking. And that is the BIG problem always.
Better yet, you have a guy who is in drugs and you make him quit.... but now he has to change his group of friends, even the way he dresses and to make it more complicate it... you have to replace one thing for others. If you do not find him new friends he will return with the old ones.
That is the deal the 2nd party have to face when trying to change another culture, most of the time the culture end up being exterminated rather than changed.
if our world revolves so much around time, is the time needed in life, going to change. Can families and friends make time for each other if they don't have it? Is it possible for friends to make time for them? Our society revolves around money, so we work, but they say that work can sometimes act to powerful, it can make us rich, and not appreciate things in life.
inciteful comment about mcdonnalds, it's like the people that blame macdonnalds for making people fat, but you decided to go to macdonnalds. I hate it when people assume that. Or it's like when people decide not to recyle even though it may help the earth more. Or going to credit unions instead of going to corperate banks that want to profit off you.
Mymemory is right --- you're a reflection of a part of what makes our society, so the only way to change it is to make some changes in yourself, and in others such as your friends whose words or/and lifestyle are things that you feel can be changed for the better. It may be difficult, and something you don't want to do, but that's the only way that you could possibly influence change in society.
Of course, trying to change your friends is risky, and you may need to become fairly preachy and annoying.
if a world revoles to much around money, or to much around things that are unimportant, is there a way to make things better if it won't? If parents won't make time for there children, is there a way to make them love them if they don't? If they work so much that they don't love them. In Seattle there is a great place to cut your hair. The couple, one was asain the other was american. In her culture the painting was important when they got married of the two of them together, but the guy had to pay for it. He was too poor to pay for it. So they loved each other so much that they were able to stay together and sort out a big cultural diferance like that. When someone doesn't love you, is it possible that you can have the power to forgive them? The question is, that there were scientifc studies that show this, that if you don't forgive, something bad will happen. How can you forgive something that is painful. Maybe that is why people need reserach?
Man, forget about changing people, people change if they need to, not even if they feel like it. Again, when you want to change a behaviour in a friend you have to remember that that behaviour matches (or is the response) of some other behaviours of his family for example.
You can tell a friend "Dude you are overweight" and he may be agree and so but you would have to say the same to his mother and she would have to cook diferently and buy different food at the market for his father too, etc. That is to give you an analogy, unless the person want to really change.
Indifference: about the money, there was a culture starting around 1920's to based everything in a material equivalent. It was big in the 60's and 70's. For the people that lives in other countries that "way of thinking" is very strong in the United States for example.
This trend goes together with a philosofical principal that is called "absolutism" and it mean that if we divided a whole in to its parts you will loose the scence. For example, if you date some one and you start to think why you like that person and how much cost you to go out with her you will loose the scence of the dating as a human feeling.
So, in a culture where there is so much materialism a way of thinking is creating behaviours, so when you are going to marry some one you think about credit, money, income and a huge amount of factors that actually take away the charm of things. That is why people are divorcing so much because society has measured everything in to a relationship and has turned cold, such thing as Spirit and Charm and those things has dissapered big time.
Just think about the amount of law suits regarding sexual arresment in a work place. Now no one can say to some one else "you are cute" or "lets go out for a drink" because people can turn stupid.
At the end everything is a mater of evolution and nature has the tendence of compensing itself.
I readed something a long time ago from some Roman emperor back when Jesus and he was saying: "The world is going to come to an end with this youth" does it sound familiar?
At the end everything is a mater of you do your best yourself and give the example and have a lot of integrity. There is something too called "free will" and even is a religious concept it mean every single person is responsible of their own destiny, show them the path but remember is up to them to walk it or not, that is how far you can go over some ones right or space.
By the way, why do you think I left New York?
By the way, the problems you are talking about are happening every where, the people in general are loosing their values.
There is something you have to notice and are the mesages the media tells you. In Venezuela there was this very important millionare who had supermarkets and everyting. When the crisis was turning bad he sold everything except for the tv and radio stations he owns... why? because he could control the population and make deals with politicians, if you were a candidate and YOU were agree with him you had coverage.
Right now, and this is related with a thread I wrote a week ago about communications, you may see more crisis because the information is traveling so fast, to the point that now governments can not hide themselves, everything is getting so visible now, the plots, everything.
We all are dealing with some stressful times because we are visualising everything, again, it is a a mater of time for things to change. The best way to see it is with the music trends, music will turn less violent very soon, that will be a response to many things.
hey I just met a cool girl from NY, she said she may go back, I have heard a lot of people will not go back. I left DC and will not go back, I hate the people. Are you on the west coast now? Usually that is where they go.
I think all cultures change eventually whether they want to or not. As mymemory just described, the westernised world has become so ridiculously materialistic without even realising it. When influences like technology, communication and human creativity are factored in, the culture changes and relatively rapidly.
Obviously, communication plays a huge part in all of this, nations or areas which lack it are less likely to be susceptible to change.
Culture is the people, places, things, that you see outside your window.
You can change it. Judaism teaches that it was not created perfect and it is our job to fix it, along with the world. A culture that does not want to change will not, because the people do not want to change. But a culture that accepts change will do so, and often change for the better.
"Change is inevitable, except from a vending machine"
hey, I was wondering, someone said that you need to be able to forgive, In science, that it can casue great harm if you can't. I am wondering, can you forgive someone, that can not forgive you? They say that for every action there is an equal but opposite reaction. I guess that is why you need to be able to forgive someone.
unless people want to change then you cant change them...if u try it just ends up failing in the long run
there is something I wanted to know for a long time. I wanted to be able to sing. I had not been able to have a voice for several reasons due to personal nature. Now I do. Something I wonder, I have my voice back now, is it possible it will go away again?
Will you let it go away?
Reframe the question: How do you get a culture (a collection of people) to WANT to change?
Answer: Easy, culture is changed all the time. Take a message, make it compelling, disseminate to a large number of people and they will change their own culture. Jesus (or rather the early Christian leaders) did it, Mohammed and the Muslim leaders did it. More recently, Ghandi and Mandela made radical cultural change within their countries and influenced the rest of the world.
Unfortunately today the most effective changers of culture are corporations, who have the focus, money and reach to accomplish the job.
"You deserve a break today" "Things go better with Coke" "Just do it" and the iPod phenomenon... These are world-wide culture changers - Coca-Cola may be the most recognizable symbol in the world, and the company is dedicated to worldwide domination of their market, nothing less.
It's done through appeal and persuasion, not coercion. We (Western audiences at least) don't perceive this as change because we are already swimming in it.
The other culture changing corporations are news media, who present only a tiny segment of what the world is, inevitably based on bias (at the very least, the bias as to what will attract readers/viewers, at worst an overt agenda to project a particular message) and an implicit preconcieved notion of values.
An interesting question would be; given constant cultural change, how does a group resist assuming the cultural direction of the wider community? The Amish come to mind, I don't know enough about how groups maintain a strong enough identity, other than through a strongly-held religious bond, to preserve an independent worldview.
Pay 'em enough cash/moo-lah/bucks/buck-a-roon-ies/$$$/stuffs/greenies and they will.
Ok dude... stop there, quit the pot.
Do you think that with the advancement of technology and communications, would it, in time, wear down the borders that surround us? As all of us start interacting with one another more easily, our ideas crash/merge and we start learning/influencing from one another. Just like a mixture of red and blue paint, would it become violet? Given enough time would we all start identifying ourself as a single culture?