Racism in Euro 2012 Football?

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by Carlanga, Jun 8, 2012.

  1. Carlanga macrumors 604

    Carlanga

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    #1
    I saw this video documentary for Euro 2012 in Ukraine & Poland and how racist far-right supporters and the anti-semitic, "white power" "Ultra fan" of Ukraine & Poland are. :eek:

    Also, I want to know if Eastern Europe really is as racists as it appears on the documentary? Has anyone seen matches there? Opinions?

    Here is the Documentary:
    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=E0f259wCerY




    .
     
  2. malman89, Jun 8, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 8, 2012

    malman89 macrumors 68000

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    #2
    Ultra/far-right football fans are found in every country and I'd wager most of them are racist. The entirety of Europe is as much or more racist than any other place - it just might differ on form based on the location (say one location being fine with nationals, but hating African immigrants/refugees instead of merely a color issue). So, basically Poland and Ukraine aren't terrible places in general and the rest of Europe isn't so peachy and blameless utopias either.

    Though I'm sure it's potentially worse in those places, seeing as they're far from diverse racially.
     
  3. Carlanga thread starter macrumors 604

    Carlanga

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    #3
    Did you see the documentary though? I know there is racism everywhere, but to be doing a Nazi salute as a whole group in a stadium and many other things that shows how big & 'normal part of life' racism is for many in Ukraine & Poland.

    Other countries have them and many racists are not 'out in the open' like in this documentary without a care of how others see them; even the police there seems to be fine w/ militant nazi & racist stylings. I have seen games where they throw stuff and say things to African players, but not to the level in the video.
     
  4. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #4
    Given the Holland team got monkey sounds made at them in training, I think there's a lot of racism.

    Poland and Ukraine are going to be humiliated if this sort of behaviour isn't controlled at the matches.
     
  5. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    One thing that really struck me was, how different this incident was reported in both countries. In the Dutch newspapers and TV news the incident was in the sports section, and given low priority. The UK news media really ran with this story, even making it the headlines.

    I firmly believe that if UEFA act boldly at the first hint of racism, this will send the right message to the fans.
     
  6. Jaffa Cake macrumors Core

    Jaffa Cake

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    #6
    Part of the reason is that racism has been a hot topic here recently, with some high profile incidents occurring. Indeed, one of the England squad competing in this tournament – former captain John Terry – is due in court later this summer to face charges relating to racist abuse he's alleged to have directed at another player during a match.

    These incidents have attracted a huge amount of media attention and concerns were expressed in the run up to the tournament about certain sections of the Polish/Ukranian support and the potential for abuse to be directed at players from the stands. The fact that black players were getting such abuse in an open training session before a ball had been kicked in anger only makes these fears look justified, and provides further headlines on a subject that already was getting a lot of attention.

    Indeed, action does need to be taken and it made plain that such behaviour won't be tolerated.

    Unfortunately, time and time again UEFA have shown an unwillingness to act strongly on this matter, in past instances where players have been subjected to racist abuse the punishments meted out to clubs and national associations have been laughable – normally amounting to little more than paltry fines.

    The authorities need to act much, much firmer than they have done in the past. I won't be holding my breath waiting for it to happen, though.
     
  7. Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #7
    Just going off topic.

    Here in the Netherlands it was found that the less publicity that you gave to football hooligans/racists the better it was. I'm certainly not suggesting no news coverage, but giving these animals a platform to further their hatred, is sometimes counterproductive. It makes them look more important than they really are.

    Back on topic.

    I do think that UEFA have been far to lax in the past, let us hope that this time they get it right.
     
  8. colour macrumors regular

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    #8
    This may help everyone understand it all a little more.

    For further research watch, Ross Kemp On Gangs: Poland which focuses heavily on hooliganism / racism.

    Notes:
    I was born and raised in a prominent western country (a country of unlimited opportunity and stability) but both my parents are from Poland and Ukraine I have been to those countries numerous times over since I was 3, here I am 20 odd years later with some first hand experience on this topic. To make it easier I will talk specifically about Poland only.

    Football or soccer is a sport which runs through the veins of every Polak, regardless of how good they are at the sport or how knowledgeable they may be of it they will become very patriotic and stand up to support their team when it comes to the world game.

    As someone who has lots of family living in Poland I have spent some time there, even in the "rougher" parts outside of the city. In my opinion I find the country to be extremely backwards and bigoted on to many levels. If we look past the corruption of governments and the poor economy and look at the people themselves they continue to carry primitive views and ideals which are only damaging the generations to come. Racism in my opinion is very much the norm in countries like Poland, a very small percentage I would say is not and I can speak from my own personal experience dealing with people in Poland and the polish communities abroad.

    So generally speaking, I would say 85% + of people in Poland would have opinions which we would consider blatant racism, although this is not considered a taboo or an issue in Poland but has become the norm. I will say that this is not everyone , there are people who live outside of Poland in exotic countries or countries which are far more multicultural, who have left Poland to see what else the world offers besides a narrow minded way of life.

    Speaking from first hand experience, keeping in mind that this is irrelevant of class, god forbid that someone from a Polish family marries someone from a distinctly different race or country. Out of say 200 families only 5 or so would be genuinely happy and supportive of this, this is 2012 and this is happening outside of Poland.

    Racism aside, I would say that there is something in the polish drinking water that only flows in that part of the world. Backwards views and opinion's ie homophobia and anti-Semitism are also very very strong, in a country that left communism behind 20 years ago and has had more opportunity to prosper. Besides these personal views which one could argue are sibjective, arrogance is quality that almost everyone possesses, this vulgar and gypsy behaviour is seen from most parts of the country amongst all socio economic backgrounds.

    This leads me to the point of why Poland is the way it is when it comes to this soccer hooliganism layered with racism. It's a combination of patriotism, which does bring the poles together as a country, unfortunately more idiots come together to rebound of each other and "express" their views. If you have thoroughly experienced the country, people and polish culture you would understand how "different" they are to some of their neighbours but there is no hiding the fact that the country is how it is. The soccer hooliganism is very strong amongst the younger generation poles even in my country but from my personal experiences not endorsed or practised by anyone educated.

    There is a lot of "unfinished business" between some of these countries which date back to historical events that shouldn't be carried out by this generations spectators through any sport, unfortunately there still is a big rivalry, pride and competition for the wrong reasons amongst these eastern European countries. This aside, even watching the game at a Eastern European club in my city I heard a few vulgar and blunt racist remarks targeting black, indian and asian races coming out of polish wearing supporters mouths. It is definitely a big issue in Poland and if I had a say I would strip a country of it's rights to host such events if their is such a nationalistic view on a global issue that we have come so far to change.

    From what I have grown up with, witnessed, researched and studied I think that Poland is predominantly backwards and this comes down to a lot of beliefs which are filtered down through generations such as racism, anti-Semitism, homophobia ect which are very very strong. Historically Poland has been a super power in the past and its a shame to see that they are struggling when countries around them in similar stations are prospering.

    It's actually really interesting what kind of discussion will come out the 2012 Euro as it is based in eastern Europe, a part of the world which has some really big issues that often get pushed under rugs and are not in the mainstream media or the eye of the western world.
     
  9. tekno macrumors 6502a

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    #9
    In my opinion, its less to do with Eastern Europe and more to do with football supporters in general.
     
  10. Queso macrumors G4

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    #10
    I don't know which matches you've been attending, but those who would be racist at the games I go to quickly get turned on by other more numerous supporters. We are not the mindless thugs you obviously believe us to be.
     
  11. OllyW Moderator

    OllyW

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    #11
    I agree. I've been going to matches since 1970 and in the UK at least, the changes of behaviour at football grounds has improved beyond recognition during that time.

    While racist chants were commonplace in the mid 70's to early 80's (along with violent behaviour) it has all but disappeared since then. As Queso says, it just isn't socially acceptable anymore and the modern seated stadiums and CCTV makes it easy for the Police and stewards to locate and apprehend any offenders.
     
  12. malman89 macrumors 68000

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    #12
    I didn't really bother at first, having heard how sensationalized it is, but I did. I was more shocked at the Ukraine and that utter denial of the Nazi salute, but that's what happens when the authorities don't care - it becomes acceptable. And as we've already seen from the Uefa response to the Holland training incident, Uefa as an authoritative body really doesn't care, so I would be surprised to see if a game incident occurs that they actually do something.

    This. Can just google and see all the incidents in practically every country - http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racism_in_association_football
     
  13. Jaffa Cake macrumors Core

    Jaffa Cake

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    As Queso and OllyW mention, there's been a big shift in mentality over the years here. That said, it would be foolish to pretend that the problem has disappeared completely here, because it hasn't – and we can't afford to be complacent on the matter either.

    I can only speak of my experience of attending matches in England, but certainly in recent years where I've seen instances of folk shouting racist abuse first hand it's individuals or very small groups rather than stands full of people in unison. The perpetrators invariably are dealt with by stewards and if their behaviour doesn't improve the police get involved, and those sat around around them are quick to make their displeasure known too.

    From a personal point of view, we often take our young nephew along with us to games and our daughter (who is five) went to her first match last season – I don't want them or any other child hearing that kind of bile and thinking that sort of language is in any way acceptable.
     
  14. niuniu macrumors 68020

    niuniu

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    #14
    Can you say monkey or the N word in relation to a black person in Poland or Ukraine socially?

    You can't in the UK (not in the past 15-20 years anyway).
     
  15. malman89, Jun 9, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 9, 2012

    malman89 macrumors 68000

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    #15
  16. colour macrumors regular

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    The hooliganism in the UK was a big thing in the past, as the others have said it's not really within the football culture in the UK today at all, whereas in Poland it's very organized and don't seem to be slowing down.
     
  17. iStudentUK macrumors 65816

    iStudentUK

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    #17
    As much as I feel dirty defending football... yes that's true. The stereotype of violent English hooligans is still present but the problem has subsided considerably. Not that I'm saying football fans are all intellectually stimulating and civilised folk. :p

    In some eastern European countries have had an emerging problem for years, in fact I watched a documentary on it recently. For many it's not really about football, but rather something to fight about.
     
  18. Jaffa Cake macrumors Core

    Jaffa Cake

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    #18
    That's just me, Queso and OllyW. :p
     
  19. Heilage macrumors 68030

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    #19
    You know, outside the the hooliganism, there has been a rise of right-wing extremism in Eastern Europe in general for the past 20 years. Many of the countries affected by the iron curtain who were opened to the world when the Berlin wall fell, are now struggling with building an economy in relation to the EU and new governments with fascist (or even nazi) tendencies are being democratically voted in.

    There are many theories as to why this is happening, but many have made the argument that it is because Western Europe (which at times is radically different in many ways than Eastern) had the full backlash of the second world war and the Nürnberg trials, reparations and all that. After WW2 ended, a strong disdain of fascism/nazism grew in the national spirits, and thus was unacceptable in mainstream politics. This never happened in Eastern Europe. The war ended, and they all got cut off when they split off Germany in 1945. Thus, much of the rhetoric once used by the NSDAP is now being utilized by fascist parties (I know Hungary has democratically voted a fascist party for parliament) in these countries. Neo-nazism is growing to be a huge problem, especially in Russia.

    Ironically, the disdain in Western Europe didn't include Communism, which has led to some messed up situations and people romanticising it. In Norway at least, having connections in USSR in the 80s wasn't necessarily a bad thing in government. Luckily, these most extremist forces are in an extreme minority, and looks the be shrinking lately as well.
     
  20. citizenzen macrumors 65816

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    This is somewhat off-topic, but ...

    For almost all of my 51 years football (soccer) has been largely ignored by the U.S. media. This is the first year that ESPN has aired all the Euro matches. That's amazing because the United States has no role in that tournament. It's a great indication of the increased interest in football in America.

    Maybe now sports commentators will stop complaining about how boring it is and how it will never be a major U.S. sport. A large part of what makes any sport compelling is knowing the story behind the clubs and players ... the history, the rivalries.

    I couldn't be happier.

    Now, if you'll excuse me, I need to watch the match between Spain and Italy.
     
  21. Happybunny, Jun 10, 2012
    Last edited: Jun 10, 2012

    Happybunny macrumors 68000

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    #21
    Just a side note here in the Netherlands they tried to intrest us with American Football one year. (1991-1992)

    All I got from it was a love of 'Cheerleaders' :D

    The Dallas Cowgirls Cheerleaders are etched into my memory.
     
  22. Carlanga thread starter macrumors 604

    Carlanga

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    #22
  23. nuckinfutz macrumors 603

    nuckinfutz

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    #23
    Soccer

    One of the few sports where the people in the stands are tougher than the players on the field.
     
  24. jeremy h macrumors 6502

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    #24
    There's also the old saying...

    Football - a game for gentlemen played by thugs
    Rugby - a game for thugs played by gentleman
     
  25. sim667 macrumors 65816

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    #25
    Realistically on a social level eastern block countries are about 20 to 30 years behind the UK as they've often been a 'closed door' under communist rule...... So yes I think theres is a lot of fash involved in football over there, just like there was in the UK in the 70's and 80's and I think it will take a good 10 years to die down. TBH i think there's probably a lot of fash in the poor areas of eastern europe as they want people to direct hate at.

    As for UEFA i dont think it will be a problem, as the % of polish and ukranian that will go to matches that aren't polish or ukranian team playing will be next to none.

    That said I hate football so i dont really care. I only responded to the thread as I passionately hate racism, and the organisations that encourage it in the UK and worldwide.
     

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