Racist Trump helped Houston but not PR

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by koulmj, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. Eraserhead macrumors G4

    Eraserhead

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    #76
    By that argument Alabama shouldn’t be a state as it doesn’t earn enough.
     
  2. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #77

    Both of you guys are painting different pictures and the truth is in between. They DO NOT pay personal income tax to the US is they work in Puerto Rico. That is paid to the local common wealth. While they do pay some taxes, they do not pay all thus creating a very broad grey line when it comes to support. Again, I agree that we should help, but what has their own government done and why are they relying so heavily on us? I have questions on this simply because we can’t be the sole source for their survival when they have a functioning government that can’t even work together to get the aid their people need. My next question is this... Now that something of this magnitude has happened, is their government working to set aside some resources if something like this happens again?

    Basically it is a grey area over all...

    Nice read on their taxation.

    https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Taxation_in_Puerto_Rico
     
  3. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #78
    I’ll just note that the pronouns in this latest comment are wrong. “They” are “us.”
     
  4. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #79
    That point has been made, but let us keep making it until it sinks in.

     
  5. Zombie Acorn, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

    Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    #80
    Filing a tax return =/= paying federal income tax. You are using an obscure rule where a PR US citizen goes outside of PR to earn their income making them liable for taxes, that completely substantiates my point. If I go to Texas and earn $50k I'll owe US taxes on it too.

    The fact that their PR income is shielded is my entire point.
     
  6. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #81
    Actually they are correct. I was talking about THEIR government which is not OUR government. They are two separate entities and have to be separated for discussion. The need for they versus us needed in the discussion because of this. You do not pay their govenrment taxes do you?

    Now, if you would like to discuss citizenship, I am all for that as well. They are considered US citizens and thus able to move in and out of the USA as they please. However, there is still a common wealth government over that territory and that is what muddies the waters giving it the “us” versus “them” mentality.

    That being said, let me know when you start paying their taxes.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    Sad that you can’t understand that they have their OWN government as well.
     
  7. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #82
    You mean like state and local governments (e.g., Texas and the City of Houston)? Obviously the mere existence of such non-federal governments completely mitigates any moral responsibility for the rest of the US to provide help. :rolleyes:
     
  8. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #83
    I live in Maryland and we have a state government here, too. That doesn’t make me any less of a citizen of the US and a constituent of the US government. You just said that Puerto Rican residents are “considered US citizens.” No, they are US citizens, just like me.

    If a foreign army invaded Florida and Puerto Rico, would you argue that the citizens in Puerto Rico are not entitled to the same defense as the citizens in Florida?
     
  9. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #84
    Sure and the states and cities also have to provide assistance. What has the common wealth of Puerto Rico done for their citizens? It is easy to criticize our government for not responding but you clearly haven’t looked in their direction and they should have been the ones providing immediate assistance.

    Again, I stated that we should have helped if not simply for the humanitarian reasons but you also have to remember that we also got hit pretty hard.
     
  10. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #85
    Once again, you can’t say “we,” “us” and “our” and not have the terms include the people of Puerto Rico. You are creating a distinction that does not exist.
     
  11. daflake, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

    daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #86
    Semantics, that is all this is....

    Again, I was discussing different governments and their common wealth government is equivalent to our federal, not a state.

    As for the invasion question, they are a US territory so we would defend them equally or as strategically as we could.

    But for aid, there is still a very large grey area when it comes to support from the mainland when they have a functioning federal level government.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---

    Haha, no I am not. I am talking about two very distinct things... It isn’t the USA’s common wealth government, it is Puerto Rico’s! How hard is that to understand? I’m sorry, should I type it like this:

    Our common wealth government should also provide support before our federal government assists.

    Does that make your feel better? You do realize that the sentence is hard to follow on a forum right, but if it makes you feel better.

    For the sake of discussion, it is us and them.
     
  12. Rhonindk macrumors 68030

    Rhonindk

    #87
    I suspect you are taking my stance a bit ... wrong. I linked an older article. Read it if you haven’t.
    If we can rebuild critical infrastructure without the local Government’s hands in ... maybe. However the PR people will need a new less corrupt Government otherwise they will be right back in the same straights when the next hurricane or earthquake strikes. Otherwise it will be business as usual.
     
  13. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #88
    The obligation of the federal government to provide disaster relief to its citizens is governed by the Stafford Act. The Stafford Act very specifically requires that residents of Puerto Rico be treated no differently than residents of any state.

    Section 102(3) of the Stafford Act defines "United States" as "the fifty States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands." Section 102(4) defines "State" as "any State of the United States, the District of Columbia, Puerto Rico, the Virgin Islands, Guam, American Samoa, and the Commonwealth of the Northern Mariana Islands."

    Section 308 of the Act prohibits discrimination in the distribution of supplies and other relief on the "grounds of race, color, religion, nationality, sex, age, disability, English proficiency, or economic status."
     
  14. Rhonindk macrumors 68030

    Rhonindk

    #89
    Nice deflection blanket. You are trying to make a corrupt situation sound simple. It isn’t.
    No one is saying not to help. They (and myself) are questioning the level when the local Government has done little to nothing, impeded the process, and can utilize the rebuild to extend the current corruptive (and incompetent) setup.
    What would be the fallout if Texas had said that all the help, rebuild, and other activities are solely the responsibility of the federal Government after having let their regional infrastructure significantly degrade. I’ll leave the “Federal Tax” item aside for the moment.
     
  15. daflake, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

    daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #90

    Yes, help, and we have you and I both think that we should do more. I agree... I still feel that their own government (and yes, I mean THEIR) government hasn’t done squat and should be held accountable.
     
  16. macsforever macrumors regular

    macsforever

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    #91
  17. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #92
    The point is that the argument advanced by you and others in this discussion that Puerto Rico's territorial status and tax obligations justify different treatment is legally wrong.
     
  18. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #93
    To be fair, they do pay US income tax, just not PERSONAL income tax. That tax is taken by their local government. The question I have is where all that money went.
     
  19. macsforever macrumors regular

    macsforever

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    #94
    Why does one mans detriment befall on another’s? Their getting help! They want to live there in a hurricane zone they have to accept the price of admission... I lived in Florida and have since moved... done dealing with storms.
     
  20. macsforever macrumors regular

    macsforever

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    #95
    Sounds like YOUR the racists! Why create such a negative thread? US is always bailing out others and I’m sick of MY tax $$ going to countries who have nothing to do with keeping the US afloat!!! Sorry, PR rum isn’t a natural resource hehe...
     
  21. macsforever macrumors regular

    macsforever

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    #96
    They don’t pay income tax!
     
  22. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #97
    Oh, you had a point? I thought your argument was that I used them instead of we?

    Never said it did... I just read on VOX that Trump actually proposed a 36.5 billion dollar relief package that was shot down by 69 GOPers. Seems like the anger is misplaced there a little. I’m not a Trump fan, but if that is the case, I would be more mad at the GOP rather than Trump.

    Again, they are a territory that is massively in debt and can’t even borrow money. Their own government is broken and can’t help them and the infrastructure is complete ****. Can we send folks over to help? Are we? Yes... The only problem is that you feel we should be doing more. How much do you propose? Is 36.5 billion enough? What is your number?
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---

    You really need to read that link I posted up. THey do pay a lot of federal taxes, just not personal income.
     
  23. JayMysterio, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

    JayMysterio macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

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    #98
    I did read your article which was an opinion piece from a former state chair for Trump's presidential run. There was even a followup article about threats he supposedly received from his stance. I've stressed that politics should be put aside. You keep talking about solving an additional problem along with current ones, and if the additional can't be solved throw our hands up.

    You can't go out and get "a new less corrupt Government" overnight or anytime soon, that will be of any help to the people of Puerto Rico NOW. You know when you can get "a new less corrupt Government"? After there is some semblance of stability in the daily lives of the people of Puerto Rico. As I've said repeatedly, no one's denying Puerto Rico's problems. Suddenly feeling this natural disaster is the impetus to solve THAT problem over their current ones isn't the way to go.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    Saying the same thing over & over will NOT suddenly make it relevant to the conversation.
     
  24. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #99
    OK - it is fair to ask how the local government is handling the situation. The answer is they're overwhelmed and require assistance from the rest of the US, rather like other disaster areas (Houston, for instance).

    However, the fact that Puerto Rico is a 'commonwealth' per se should have nothing to do with getting disaster aid, for there are states that describe themselves as 'commonwealths' (Virginia, Massachusetts, Kentucky and Pennsylvania).
     
  25. daflake macrumors 6502a

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    #100
    But they are states, not territories. It is a little different... They still have to govern themselves and have little to no oversight from our federal side. So if they destroy their country it is really still on them.

    That being said, I do agree and as I posted, it looks like a number was tossed but then squashed. If anything it is a humanitarian issue and I don’t think that Trump is doing enough. I can assure you that the mayor of San Juan did nothing to help the cause of Puerto Rico as a whole either. Both parties need to shut the hell up, roll up their sleeves and get to work.
     

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