Racist Trump helped Houston but not PR

Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by koulmj, Dec 30, 2017.

  1. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    Scotland
    #101
    The law is the law, and it seems like it is not being adhered to...

    OK, but the question is whether the same help is going to places where Trump (and the GOP) is popular (Texas) versus places they are not (PR). Surely you must understand that the one thing that must not be biased is the provision of disaster aid. Either by intention, or through outright incompetence, President 'Big Button' Trump is not providing sufficient resurces to get the job in PR done. People are killing themselves in PR out of despair for the situation.

    We can help the people of PR recover from the hurricane damage and help them improve their local government (repealing various shipping laws that cause PR economic hardship might be a good start so the local government actually has some funds with which to do something; possibly providing law enforcement resources to reduce corruption). The two are not mutually incompatible.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    Agreed. It's frustrating to hear of the conditions in PR, so apologies if some of that frustration got misdirected. I know somebody's who lost a close family member there because he became despondent and committed suicide. It just sounds like a humanitarian quagmire.

    I also recognise there are places elsewhere in the US that have other disasters, including man-made ones, to deal with. I am not saying that these areas should get less simply because PR is the current focus of the news media.
     
  2. LIVEFRMNYC macrumors 604

    Joined:
    Oct 27, 2009
    #102
    They pay FICA. They are also not eligible for the Earned Income Tax Credit, and they need three kids before they are eligible for the Child Tax Credit.

    Here more info .... http://www.pr51st.com/taxes-in-puerto-rico-update/

     
  3. USAFA2008 Suspended

    USAFA2008

    Joined:
    Dec 1, 2017
    #103
    But Alabama is already a state so we can't get rid of them whereas we can keep Puerto Rico from becoming a state since they will be a drain on tax dollars.
    So where did that money Puerto Rico collected in taxes go? Why wasn't it used to upgrade their infrastructure before the hurricane?
    What part of Maryland? I have family in the area. I am sure Puerto Rico would be defended in an attack since there is a military base there.
    Puerto Rico should have been prepared for hurricane damage because of their geographic location. What did Puerto Rico due to prepare for a hurricane? What assistance did the state and city provide? I would make Puerto Rico a priority to fix over other countries that were hit because they are a US territory.
    Isn't that the question! You should see the fun the US is having by trying to close a base in England. I heard from coworkers a German city or perhaps Germany itself sued because the US consolidated bases there. I have no idea if it is true because I never cared enough to look into it but after hearing about what is going on in England it makes sense for them to sue. It is just another way the countries are looking for handouts from the US because the bases subsidize their economy. But the question is why do these countries expect the US to finance them?
    Yes where did this money go? It sounds like the politicians in Puerto Rico need to be investigated and criminally charged. There is no reason their infrastructure should resemble that of a 3rd world country.
     
  4. Rhonindk macrumors 68030

    Rhonindk

    #104
    Sigh ... Since we can't change it overnight we are now obligated to finance the continuation of the current problem? I love your phrase:
    If that was true, they would have one. Instead they have corruption and incompetence. How do we control or limit the incompetence and corruption while helping?

    As for the opinion piece, it is an example of what has become a common practice down there - how to do it without the PR Government getting involved. All they do (PR Gov) is delay, delay, delay, while holding their hands out and sowing confusion.
    --- Post Merged, Jan 3, 2018 ---
    The "Law is the Law" however you can't wave it around and ignore the remainder of the problem.
    President Trump, "The PR needs to help more! Poor leadership is not helping! Get your people involved...".
    FEMA, "Mr. President, we are all out of materials and are making more as fast as we can."
    Mayor Cruz, "Mr. President this is about saving lives. It's not about politics"
    GOP, "No more money!"
    Dems, "Whatever Trump wants, we don't. Get the Mayor to tell him off."
    President Trump, "The Governor is not playing politics."
    Governor Rosselló, "What do I do next? I'm already $118 billion in the hole. I need more money!"
    People of PR, "Why can't we just get this done? Curfews that limit supply runs?"


    As for PR - you need to remember they are third in line (Occurrence), there is a timeline to produce the materials they need, are an island nation that makes getting materials in a challenge. Need giant transformers? Need thousands of telephone poles? need ...? There is a time line to that supply-chain. in most cases months at best and that is with a perfect process.

    Anyway you look at it, they need help but after depleting the current supplies, it will take a while to get just the supplies there. Then there is the proper people needed. Then rebuilding a busted infrastructure framework.

    Local paper - (PAPER)
     
  5. macsforever macrumors regular

    macsforever

    Joined:
    Jun 7, 2014
    #105
    BUT... MOST DON’T and are NOT required to like us here in the US! They don’t get audited like we can!!!
     
  6. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #106
    If somebody resides in PR, then they are in the US. Get over it.
     
  7. bradl, Jan 3, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 3, 2018

    bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
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    #107
    Obscure rule? That is codified law. Again, check your sources. Mine came from the same source @daflake posted, which I showed you as well. As you do NOT know where their sources of income come from, you can not safely say or assume that they do not pay US federal income tax.

    Again, you have painted the citizens of Puerto Rico (who are US Citizens unless they are resident aliens) with a broad brush as to whether or not they pay US federal income tax, which it has been proven that they do. You can not use one broad stroke to cover all, and therein lies your problem.

    Again, broad brush. Re-read the link again, and you'll see how incorrect, yet again, this is.

    Additionally, that isn't what you said previously. You stated that because the people of Puerto Rico do not pay US Federal Income Tax, they should not get any assistance from the US Government; in particular, FEMA.

    Again, broad stroke with a broad brush. And I would suggest that you re-read the link on Taxation in Puerto Rico, to see how incorrect you are.

    BL.
     
  8. Rhonindk macrumors 68030

    Rhonindk

    #108
    The federal taxes paid by Puerto Rico residents include import/export taxes, federal commodity taxes, and others. Residents also pay federal payroll taxes, such as Social Security and Medicare taxes. Only certain residents of Puerto Rico are required to file federal income tax forms.
     
  9. VulchR macrumors 68020

    VulchR

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    #109
    Not sure what taxes have to do with my post at all. :confused:
     
  10. JayMysterio macrumors 6502

    JayMysterio

    Joined:
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    Rock Ridge, California
    #110
    With my comment comes the assumption of this... If the government is going to change, how is it going to change? Presumably with guidance and effort from the US Congress & government, then probably elections for new officials. You want to do THAT first? o_O As much as you seem to dislike & others advocating holding Puerto Rico's government's feet to the fire, that doesn't help it's people NOW. Just because something can't be fixed to the pace of your liking, it doesn't mean we don't what's necessary now.

    Get things together now for the basics to be reestablished. Then as Puerto Rico has asked for additional money to rebuild & redo their infrastructure Wall Street & Congress can honestly work to righten the ship. There's nothing to prevent Congress & Wall Street to put into any agreements that Puerto Rico straighten it's house to get the money to make long term corrections. It would be in fact a pleasant change from how they've acted in the past.

    Right NOW though it helps no one to put strings & conditions during dire situations because some want to stand on some moral high ground to justify not giving the same aid given to other parts of the country.
     
  11. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
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    #111
    Exactly. Which goes against ZA's point about Puerto Ricans not paying federal income taxes. Some do, which is why such a broad brush used to stroke all of them there is incorrect.

    BL.
     
  12. Rhonindk macrumors 68030

    Rhonindk

    #112
    I hear you however ... best of luck on all that.
    What I am concerned with is that things will just continue on as usual and we will be doing this again in the next few years. Now add in the changes from the new Tax Plan...
     
  13. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Location:
    Toronto, Ontario
    #113
    Some Canadians pay US federal income tax as well, they are an extreme minority. General rule is people living and working in PR pay NO federal income taxes. PR is also a net taker from the federal government and my suggestion is that if they want full support they should pay full taxes. You don't have to agree with that stance, it doesn't bother me.
     
  14. Rhonindk macrumors 68030

    Rhonindk

    #114
    No it doesn't. The two of you are talking Apples vs. Fruit Basket.
     
  15. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    Washington, DC
    #115
    It doesn't matter whether anyone agrees with you or not. Your suggestion is irrelevant because the federal government is required by law (see my earlier links to the Stafford Act) to treat Puerto Rico just like it would any state for purposes of disaster relief.
     
  16. GermanSuplex macrumors 6502a

    GermanSuplex

    Joined:
    Aug 26, 2009
    #116
    “I don’t care if an infant was brought over here in a raft, has no memories of Mexico and doesn’t even know how to speak Spanish. Once their grace period ran out, they are now a criminal. Just because they go to college and work a job and pay taxes, as a criminal and illegal immigrant, they need to go back to someplace they haven’t been since they were six days old.”

    “Well, they’re citizens, but they don’t pay federal taxes.”

    “Well, they’re citizens and pay taxes, but they live in a state with the highest incarceration rate. They are a drain on taxpayers, and society.”

    “Well, they’re citizens and pay a disproportionately high amount of taxes and live in the lowest-crime state with the best fiscal health in the nation, but they don’t support the second amendment.”

    “They were brown people.”

    You know, we could have just helped them and went to work on fixing the core issue. Trump could have even done a good job, quiet some of the criticism of him being... “unkind”... to immigrants, and also brought up the point that we need better local responsibilities for disaster recovery. It could have been a real all-encompassing issue.

    Did he think of any of that?
     
  17. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
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    #117
    It doesn't matter what you think they are in relation to the government. In fact, it is irrelevant. The fact here is that you decided to paint all of the people of Puerto Rico with a broad brush in regards to their income taxes, and were shown numerously in this thread to be totally incorrect.

    Regardless of what you think, the law is paramount here, and the law has proven you to be wrong.

    BL.
     
  18. Zombie Acorn macrumors 65816

    Zombie Acorn

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    Toronto, Ontario
    #118
    You found a sliver of the populace who might be liable to pay federal income taxes, those who aren't bona fide residents or those who are and received income outside of PR. Guess what, that applies to all US citizens around the world. The general case is that PRs don't pay federal income tax because 1) they aren't required to since they are residents and earn their income where they reside and 2) average income in PR is less than $20k.

    You are arguing the 1% corner case which actually applies to all US citizens globally while I'm arguing the 99%.
     
  19. bradl macrumors 68040

    bradl

    Joined:
    Jun 16, 2008
    #119
    You're painting the 100% with the same broad brush without accounting for those which your road brush doesn't apply. Lack of oversight on your part, not mine. Perhaps you should be more specific in your comments so they don't get called out for being incorrect.

    BL.
     
  20. daflake macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
    Apr 8, 2008
    #120
    Again, it is my understanding that Trump proposed a rather large sum of money for them that was shot down, so I think part of your anger is misplaced. Still, he could be doing more but life moves on. Most people have already forgotten about Puerto Rico.
     
  21. BarracksSi Suspended

    BarracksSi

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    Jul 14, 2015
    #121
    Basing the rejection of aid on whether they pay taxes is simply inhumane.
     
  22. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #122
    Do you have a source for the claim that Trump wanted more aid for PR but was “shot down?” That simply is not true.

    And the correct reaction to the statement that most people have “already forgotten about Puerto Rico” is disgust, not “life moves on.”
     
  23. daflake, Jan 4, 2018
    Last edited: Jan 5, 2018

    daflake macrumors 6502a

    Joined:
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    #123
    I said I read it on VOX, go dig if you like, it is possible it is bogus. I am in the middle of a move and don’t have time. That being said, I also know that congress has the power to get the money too and Puerto Rico has asked for 95 billion which is crazy as well. I blame the entire political system alike on this one, both sides share the blame.

    As for the rest, that is your opinion. Most people have lives and can’t be glued to every drama in every corner of the world

    You know you can also donate to Puerto Rico to help them or volunteer to go help rebuild. I k ow some folks who are doing his.
     
  24. Rhonindk macrumors 68030

    Rhonindk

    #124
    I suspect this is the VOX (ARTICLE)
     
  25. RichardMZhlubb Contributor

    RichardMZhlubb

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    #125
    And, if so, it says precisely the opposite of what daflake claimed.
     

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