Rand is not Ron

63dot

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jun 12, 2006
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norcal
Ron Paul, agree with him or not, is consistent in his usually right wing beliefs on small government and left leaning/socially liberal beliefs on gay rights and legalizing drugs. He may falter from time to time but compared to most politicians, he seems rather consistent and not flip flop.

When Reagan or Clinton got caught on flip flopping they got crucified but to think of this?:

http://www.cnn.com/2014/08/12/opinion/cardona-rand-paul/index.html?hpt=hp_t3

Where one can defend a Reagan or Clinton for having to work with a Congress that was controlled by the opposing party and thus making a flip flop, I don't know what Rand Paul is all about. Some early supporters who were libertarian dropped off when it seemed like Rand was the establishment republican he swore he wasn't.

Rand to me just tried to capitalize on his dad's grass roots supporters and now that he's there in DC and established, he's just another GOP talking head in the party that is more guilty of the flip flop.

I think both desperate libertarians who can tolerate the GOP and desperate GOP stalwarts will support Rand as long as it seems like he stands a chance in 2016 against someone like Hilary. Rand is not the deeply experienced, high percentage candidate like a Bush, McCain, or Romney but will say or do anything to please the right wing and also please the moderates.

Rand has to decide pretty soon if he wants to be a fringe candidate with fringe issues or embrace the system he used to attack. He can't change the GOP overnight and he shouldn't pretend to lest he fall into more flip flops. He has to play the moderate road to gain the independents and stick to his guns. I understand he doesn't want to make early enemies right now but he has to stand for something lest he look like that formerly liberal, pro-choice republican governor of a liberal state turned spokesperson for religious conservatives, pro-life, and big corporations.
 
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aerok

macrumors 65816
Oct 29, 2011
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Consistently an idiot in my opinion. Both are them are just plain idiots that can only ruin the country.

I do admit that Rand is a bigger idiot and more of a threat than Ron.
 

63dot

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jun 12, 2006
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norcal
Consistantly an idiot in my opinion. Both are them are just plain idiots that can only ruin the country.
Maybe so, but dad has principles and a plan and was never the ultimate yes man. Rand is along for the ride and doesn't have the long term survivability of his dad.

The flip flopping has pretty much shed off his dad's very loyal supporters. If Rand is not truly libertarian in any way, he should say so. If he wants to be a big government, big war machine, big Wall Street republican then he needs to let this be known. As much as I don't like the establishment republicans and their totally hypocritical stand of less taxes while taxing and spending us to death, the establishment GOP does have more power and a far better chance at winning a major election.

Conservatives on the outside of the GOP machine could get some traction, but will be crushed like a Ross Perot. Ross didn't get much in terms of electoral votes but his third party run was far more successful than anything from Greens or Libertarians. The closest thing to passionate conservatives not happy with the GOP were the Ron Paul supporters. Rand is making it clear by his actions he won't get anywhere with true believers, even if they believe in the wrong things. Rand is the best example of a lying politician and I sometimes wonder what his dad thinks about all of this.

Even when things seem similar on the resume, like Bush senior and W, they can be very, very different in practice (Yale, pilot, governor, president).
 

LIVEFRMNYC

macrumors 604
Oct 27, 2009
7,433
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Consistently an idiot in my opinion. Both are them are just plain idiots that can only ruin the country.

I do admit that Rand is a bigger idiot and more of a threat than Ron.
I agree. Rand also flip flops too much. Ron is more consistent with his beliefs.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
13,987
The flip flopping has pretty much shed off his dad's very loyal supporters. If Rand is not truly libertarian in any way, he should say so. If he wants to be a big government, big war machine, big Wall Street republican then he needs to let this be known. As much as I don't like the establishment republicans and their totally hypocritical stand of less taxes while taxing and spending us to death, the establishment GOP does have more power and a far better chance at winning a major election.
I don't think he wants any of those things, but he wants to be President more, so he'll do what it takes.

On that topic, Rand will be the GOP candidate, he's got the Kochs funding him when the campaign starts. That's why he's being extremely cautious with the media.
 

aerok

macrumors 65816
Oct 29, 2011
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I don't think he wants any of those things, but he wants to be President more, so he'll do what it takes.

On that topic, Rand will be the GOP candidate, he's got the Kochs funding him when the campaign starts. That's why he's being extremely cautious with the media.
If it's Rand Paul, I'll root for Hilary while punching my own genitals.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
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If it's Rand Paul, I'll root for Hilary while punching my own genitals.
Well get ready, my source is a staffer for a very high level GOPer who gets to sit in on the leadership meetings. That's all I can say.
 

Michael Goff

Suspended
Jul 5, 2012
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I don't think he wants any of those things, but he wants to be President more, so he'll do what it takes.

On that topic, Rand will be the GOP candidate, he's got the Kochs funding him when the campaign starts. That's why he's being extremely cautious with the media.
If that's the case, the Democrats will have to be stupid to lose.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
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If that's the case, the Democrats will have to be stupid to lose.
I'm not sure they want to win at this point. Simply putting the minimum wage on the ballot across the country, especially in "battleground" states, would guarantee a victory...but they would rather have something to run on in 2016 :rolleyes:
 

Michael Goff

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Not if the American population is stupid to vote for Rand.
Except he's an easy target for attack ads. It's like how some people didn't vote for Romney because he "doesn't like poor people" and McCain because he's "just like Bush". It seems that these last coupled elections, the GOP has fielded candidates that are just so easy to pick apart even without having to think about theirs policy positions.

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I'm not sure they want to win at this point. Simply putting the minimum wage on the ballot across the country, especially in "battleground" states, would guarantee a victory...but they would rather have something to run on in 2016 :rolleyes:
And in 2016, when they run on it, they'll do really well against Rand Paul.
 

NT1440

macrumors G5
May 18, 2008
12,141
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And in 2016, when they run on it, they'll do really well against Rand Paul.
Which is ********. They could have all three branches if they ran on it this year. They refuse to do so because of 2016 and the fact that they are bought and paid for by big corporations.
 

Michael Goff

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Jul 5, 2012
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Which is ********. They could have all three branches if they ran on it this year. They refuse to do so because of 2016 and the fact that they are bought and paid for by big corporations.
I don't disagree on anything you've said in your post.
 

Meister

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Oct 10, 2013
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Rand learned from his fathers mistakes.

Noone votes for a straight and honest guy as president.
 

Dmunjal

macrumors 65816
Jun 20, 2010
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If it's Rand Paul, I'll root for Hilary while punching my own genitals.
That would be an interesting race. Hillary is right of Rand on several issues that matter to young people. Drug legalization, NSA snooping, aggressive foreign policy, and Wall Street. Rand could win.
 

aerok

macrumors 65816
Oct 29, 2011
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That would be an interesting race. Hillary is right of Rand on several issues that matter to young people. Drug legalization, NSA snooping, aggressive foreign policy, and Wall Street. Rand could win.
Hoping people see him as the idiot that he is.
 

63dot

macrumors 603
Original poster
Jun 12, 2006
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norcal
I don't think he wants any of those things, but he wants to be President more, so he'll do what it takes.

On that topic, Rand will be the GOP candidate, he's got the Kochs funding him when the campaign starts. That's why he's being extremely cautious with the media.
If the big funding means that Rand will become the establishment/big money republican, it will be interesting to see him shed off his grass roots libertarian stances of his early years.

While I don't like this guy either, I think Chris Christie has less of a distance to travel in his political makeover to be the independent catch all centrist republican. The GOP had a good chance to take the White House in 1996 but veered off too far to the right and blew it when they could have run a moderate like Colin Powell or John McCain. Some idiot republicans thought that they lost in 1996 because Bob Dole was too liberal?!? If that was the case the GOP could have always won with a Pat Buchannan or Herman Cain type of ultra conservative nutjob.

I don't consider early Rand Paul right or left, but his early ultra libertarian views don't fit the mainstream so he will probably try to remake himself into the candidate who can please the right wing republicans and centrist independents.

That being said, if I had to choose Rand or Ron, I much prefer Ron because with him at least everybody knows where he stands. The Kochs fund everybody because they never want to let their influence wane.
 
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