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Discussion in 'Politics, Religion, Social Issues' started by rdowns, Oct 28, 2008.
Hmmm, try as I might, I can't see a connection here.
These stories are just going to get worse over this next week, I am sorry to say.
but with all of the victory parties the Obamians are planing it seems he's already won no need for you to go out and vote
Same thing that happened in the 2004 election. Nothing new under the sun.
The usual voter suppression. But, we have good, unusual news here in Florida. We still have a Republican governor, but not, this year, the brother of the presidential candidate. The Republican legislature had reduced early voting hours, which hurts lower-income voters, who have a harder time taking time off. The lines have been huge in the highly Democrat counties in south Florida.
A Republican strategist in the state told Politico that, "He just blew Florida for John McCain."
How bout some good ol' Vote flipping...
WVA Vote Flipping Caught on Tape
WVA Vote Flipping Testimonial
Standard GOP voter suppression tactics. Happens every election cycle.
So, 8 hours per day for almost 2 weeks before the election plus 12 hours on election day plus the ability to get a mail in ballot isn't enough?
What would satisfy you? 24/7 for an entire month, or would that still be disenfranchising voters?
This is what I simply do not understand, which I have alluded to in my "Will Your Votes Be Counted?" thread: how can you allow this to happen? Any other democratic country which was so cavalier about its voting procedures would be turned upside down by angry voters of all persuasions. Yet in the States vote-rigging, miscounting, gerrymandering, and flagrant abuse of the political process seems to be routine, election after election, met with a big yawn and a rolling of the eyes. I just don't get it.
after you're done with the sarcasm and eye-rolling...
could you please explain the downside for having extended voting hours?
I don't find any problem with early voting. I think its a good thing.
My post was in response to jplan2008 suggesting that since the Florida Republican legislature cut the number of hours in early voting from 12 per day to 8 per day, that it is somehow just an evil plot to disenfranchise voters. I think that 8 hours per day for almost 2 weeks, plus the 12 hours on election day, plus the ability to get a mail-in ballot is more than reasonable. I mean, if they cut the hours back to only a couple per day, then he'd have something to complain about.
At some point, individual voters have to take responsibility to vote. And with as many options that are available, there really is no excuse for not voting.
Well, I suppose I could get out my guns and make a stand, demanding access to the Diebold source code OR ELSE!
It's not that I don't care, far from it. It's just that with TPTB entrenched as they are, it's going to take either a catastrophic event -- such as a demonstrably stolen election -- or the election of more open government types to allow us to break through the walls erected by these companies who have cozied up to the political elite in this country.
Also, you have to realize that since these vote inaccuracies seem to always favor one particular party, there isn't a lot of incentive for that side to get engaged in taking this on. It's to their benefit to see the status quo remain. And by the same token, it allows those very same folks to decry and attempt to challenge the results of suspect elections as "partisan".
Until this becomes a bi-partisan issue, I'm afraid we're not going to see much progress made.
i'll rephrase the question...
why is 12 hours a day unreasonable?
Hundreds of thousands have died, two countries have been destroyed (not including Somalia), the world economy is down the crapper, and all this quite possibly because two US elections have been stolen. How bad does it have to get before both parties say "ENOUGH!"? Your forbears fought for their independence for this?
Why is 8 hours a day so unreasonable?
Neither one of us knows why the legislature reduced the hours. Maybe they had a hard time getting workers, who knows. To me, it is not such a big deal and certainly not a Republican conspiracy to disenfranchise voters by cutting back the hours. There are still plenty of opportunities for people to vote early in Florida if they choose to do so.
Because there were still a large amount of people wanting to vote early, and the 8 hours wouldn't accommodate everyone.
I don't know why you are showing such hostility for an increased 4 hours of voting time so people can actually cast a vote. Why are you so opposed to people exercising their right to vote?
I think you do...
Oh of course I do. But wouldn't you like to see what excuses he comes up with to avoid giving the real answer?
Here's some videos of NC Republicans heckling early voters.
all conspiracy theories aside, the republican gov. of florida extends early voting from 8 hours a day to 12 hours a day. you state that 8 hours a day is reasonable. i'd just like to know what criteria you based your opinion on.
if you're not prepared to explain your position-you really should just refrain from posting.
No where have I said that it would be a bad thing to have people vote early. I just don't think that cutting the hours to a still reasonable 8 hours per day is a conspiracy to disenfranchise voters.
But feel free to continue to interpret my words however you like.
And what is wrong with 12 hours, if 8 hours is okay? The Republican governor has no problem with it, and clearly they have the staff available for 12 hours if he extended the hours.
I'd still really like to know why you find this so objectionable. So far your whole argument is "well, 8 hours is good enough". But again: clearly it isn't, as the hours were extended to accommodate those who couldn't vote in that 8 hour period.
If you're in a lower-income job in which you have to work eight hours straight, during normal business hours, i.e. the hours that the early polls are open, you won't be able to make the early voting hours. You'll be working while they're open. Lower-income people tend to vote Democrat, so limiting the hours to only eight hurts the Democrat vote. Whether or not it was a conspiracy or not, it does hurt the Democrats. That's just a fact.
What makes it suspicious is that the hours were lowered to eight by Republicans. What rationale did they give? Why is lowering the available hours in anyway a good thing? It's not like the hours were originally established at eight. They were lowered to eight. Why?
I have explained my position quite well. The governor of Florida is within his rights to increase the hours of early voting. I have absolutely no problem with that. I have no problem with early voting either. I think it is great. Much better than having just election day.
My problem was in jplan2008's original statement that reducing the hours of early voting constituted an attempt to disenfranchise voters. It's not.
Except when people are queuing for up to eight hours to vote?
Which is something I also find remarkable. Voting in the UK usually takes about 10-15 minutes, sometimes quicker. Polling stations everywhere.